1 00:00:00,042 --> 00:00:02,866 And Cain said to his brother Abel: 2 00:00:02,876 --> 00:00:04,988 and it came to pass that while them in the field 3 00:00:04,998 --> 00:00:08,948 Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him. 4 00:00:08,958 --> 00:00:12,072 And the Lord said to Cain: Where is Abel your brother? 5 00:00:12,082 --> 00:00:15,988 And he answered: I don't know. Am I perhaps my brother's guardian? 6 00:01:21,417 --> 00:01:28,999 GUARDIAN OF MY BROTHER 7 00:01:44,751 --> 00:01:47,032 - Good afternoon, Mr. Ward. - Good afternoon. 8 00:01:47,042 --> 00:01:49,876 - Do you live on Johnson Road? - Yes. 9 00:01:50,083 --> 00:01:54,000 - Did you live there all your life? - Yes, did I live there all my life? 10 00:01:54,667 --> 00:01:57,574 - And he said he had some brothers. - Yes. 11 00:01:57,584 --> 00:02:00,167 -Roscoe, Lyman and William? - Yes. 12 00:02:02,125 --> 00:02:06,125 Do you remember this question? Mr. Ward, from the statement? 13 00:02:06,959 --> 00:02:10,407 "How do you feel about the pain of him?" Remember that question? 14 00:02:10,417 --> 00:02:12,866 - Yes, I remember it. - Do you remember the answer? 15 00:02:12,876 --> 00:02:16,751 "I felt like he should go to the doctors. My feelings were that I felt... 16 00:02:16,959 --> 00:02:21,501 that Bill would be better off without his pain, "So I didn't have to suffer anymore." 17 00:02:21,626 --> 00:02:23,988 - I remember that. - You made that statement, correct? 18 00:02:23,998 --> 00:02:24,998 Yes. 19 00:02:25,334 --> 00:02:30,282 Do you remember this question? "After After Bill fell asleep, what did he decide to do? 20 00:02:30,292 --> 00:02:32,542 Yes, I remember that question. 21 00:02:32,584 --> 00:02:36,209 Do you remember answering this? "I decided to put my hand over his mouth. 22 00:02:36,334 --> 00:02:40,083 I came up behind him with my right hand and placed it over his mouth. 23 00:02:40,209 --> 00:02:43,250 He struggled a little, but then it stopped. 24 00:02:43,375 --> 00:02:46,988 I wanted to make sure that Bill "I was no longer suffering, I was dead." 25 00:02:46,998 --> 00:02:49,282 - Yes, I remember. - Do you remember giving that answer? 26 00:02:49,292 --> 00:02:54,042 I remember I gave that answer later that they told me that I had done it. 27 00:02:54,459 --> 00:02:57,155 Do you remember this question? "How long "Did you have your hand over his mouth?" 28 00:02:57,162 --> 00:02:57,874 Yes. 29 00:02:57,876 --> 00:03:00,406 - Answer. "About 5 minutes." - That's what they told me. 30 00:03:00,417 --> 00:03:05,250 - That's the answer you gave. - They told me. I agreed. 31 00:03:37,083 --> 00:03:41,125 "VILLAGE OF MUNNSVILLE" 32 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:44,406 "HELP! DONATIONS TO DELBERT WARD" 33 00:03:44,417 --> 00:03:45,988 Today, Delbert Ward lives... 34 00:03:45,998 --> 00:03:50,240 in the Madison County Jail, accused of killing his brother. 35 00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:52,782 Police report that the body of William Ward, 64 years old... 36 00:03:52,792 --> 00:03:56,574 he found himself in his bed at 5:30 yesterday morning. 37 00:03:56,584 --> 00:03:58,986 An autopsy showed that had been suffocated. 38 00:03:58,999 --> 00:04:02,616 Police believe that Delbert Ward, 59 years old, committed the crime. 39 00:04:02,626 --> 00:04:04,282 The authorities They still don't know the reason. 40 00:04:04,292 --> 00:04:06,866 All in Munnsville They know the Ward brothers. 41 00:04:06,876 --> 00:04:10,157 Bill and Delbert used to come to town on this green tractor every day... 42 00:04:10,167 --> 00:04:13,584 and his brothers, Lyman and Roscoe, They drove the red one. 43 00:04:13,959 --> 00:04:18,407 The man accused of killing his brother Out of mercy, I left prison tonight. 44 00:04:18,417 --> 00:04:22,282 An entire community supported to the dairy farmer... 45 00:04:22,292 --> 00:04:24,986 and for Delbert Ward that means freedom. 46 00:04:24,998 --> 00:04:27,697 The Delbert Ward Story start here. 47 00:04:27,709 --> 00:04:31,918 Ward lived and farmed here with his three brothers most of his life. 48 00:04:31,999 --> 00:04:34,996 But life for Delbert Ward changed on June 6... 49 00:04:35,006 --> 00:04:38,656 when his brother William, 64 years old, died of suffocation. 50 00:04:38,668 --> 00:04:43,198 Today, a judge set bail for Delbert Ward, and Delbert's friends paid. 51 00:04:43,208 --> 00:04:46,242 After three weeks, Delbert Ward was released from prison. 52 00:04:46,252 --> 00:04:48,988 - What is the first thing you will do? - I'll go home to rest. 53 00:04:48,998 --> 00:04:52,988 Thus, Delbert Ward has overcome the first obstacle with the law. 54 00:04:52,998 --> 00:04:55,616 Although the battle It's not over yet... 55 00:04:55,626 --> 00:04:58,988 Delbert Ward says he has faith in the judicial system. 56 00:04:58,998 --> 00:05:02,958 In Madison County, Donna Speziale, News Center 5. 57 00:05:07,918 --> 00:05:11,417 - Do you enjoy this job? - Clear. I've always done it. 58 00:05:12,999 --> 00:05:14,959 What do you like about him? 59 00:05:15,542 --> 00:05:17,542 The smell of hay. 60 00:05:20,709 --> 00:05:24,999 If I were here when it cuts, I would appreciate the smell. 61 00:05:25,209 --> 00:05:26,998 It smells good. 62 00:05:33,998 --> 00:05:36,364 What are you thinking now, Delbert? 63 00:05:36,375 --> 00:05:37,997 I'm not thinking. 64 00:05:39,125 --> 00:05:40,988 I'm just observing him. 65 00:05:40,998 --> 00:05:44,334 If you have any problem, I will help you. If you break something. 66 00:05:46,834 --> 00:05:48,959 How long is this going to take? 67 00:05:50,999 --> 00:05:52,999 Geez, it's hard to say. 68 00:05:56,167 --> 00:05:58,751 Depends on if you can carry it all at once or not. 69 00:06:02,999 --> 00:06:04,999 It doesn't go too fast. 70 00:06:07,542 --> 00:06:09,834 �It bothers you that we are doing a movie about you? 71 00:06:11,876 --> 00:06:13,667 It doesn't bother me. 72 00:06:15,792 --> 00:06:17,584 It went naturally. 73 00:06:17,834 --> 00:06:19,999 - Did Bill die naturally? - Yes. 74 00:06:21,083 --> 00:06:23,999 Died naturally because I had lost a lot of weight. 75 00:06:26,334 --> 00:06:29,292 And he always complained that his feet were bothering him. 76 00:06:30,999 --> 00:06:32,999 He always walked lame. 77 00:06:35,834 --> 00:06:36,999 Yes. 78 00:06:38,459 --> 00:06:41,042 Well, I think he died on your own... 79 00:06:41,459 --> 00:06:43,999 because he became terribly thin. 80 00:06:44,918 --> 00:06:46,918 I lost a lot of weight. 81 00:06:47,125 --> 00:06:49,324 - How were you the week before? - What? 82 00:06:49,334 --> 00:06:53,072 How were you the week before? How was Bill the week before he died? 83 00:06:53,082 --> 00:06:54,988 Not very well. 84 00:06:58,083 --> 00:07:02,125 You see, years ago, It was cut with a chain saw. 85 00:07:02,999 --> 00:07:05,626 And that always bothered him. 86 00:07:08,584 --> 00:07:11,751 - What happened? - He couldn't turn it off. 87 00:07:12,167 --> 00:07:15,792 - With the saw, what happened? - He cut it. 88 00:07:17,167 --> 00:07:20,949 What did the police tell you? When were you alone with them? 89 00:07:20,959 --> 00:07:24,292 - Do you remember? - No, because I was very shocked. 90 00:07:24,999 --> 00:07:26,667 Worse than I am now. 91 00:07:27,417 --> 00:07:30,032 How was it then? How was it then? 92 00:07:30,042 --> 00:07:32,492 - It was bad there. - Why? 93 00:07:32,502 --> 00:07:35,876 Because I was nervous. That's why they said not to bother me. 94 00:07:37,959 --> 00:07:39,999 - You were nervous. - Yes. 95 00:07:40,542 --> 00:07:43,501 They said: "I could have a stroke or a heart attack, and goodbye." 96 00:07:51,999 --> 00:07:54,032 We don't put it Nervous, right? 97 00:07:54,042 --> 00:07:58,125 Everything makes me nervous. It was always like this... since he was this tall. 98 00:07:58,292 --> 00:08:01,999 Does everything make you nervous? Since I was a child? 99 00:08:02,209 --> 00:08:05,626 - I'm always nervous. - Remember what was the first... 100 00:08:06,083 --> 00:08:08,616 I don't know. I was probably born to be nervous. 101 00:08:08,626 --> 00:08:10,918 - He was born to be nervous. - Probably. 102 00:08:11,667 --> 00:08:14,626 I'm not the only one who's nervous. Many men around here are nervous. 103 00:08:15,999 --> 00:08:19,959 - For example, who is nervous? - Almost all these farmers. 104 00:08:19,999 --> 00:08:22,083 - What makes you nervous? - Me? 105 00:08:22,334 --> 00:08:25,999 I don't know. I was always nervous, all my life. 106 00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:29,250 So that's what I'm going to do. 107 00:08:31,999 --> 00:08:33,918 I'm going to try to organize a little. 108 00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:37,250 I was always nervous. 109 00:09:25,667 --> 00:09:29,407 When we were in the stands, We just went to look. 110 00:09:29,417 --> 00:09:32,042 We had no idea What were we getting into? 111 00:09:32,417 --> 00:09:33,532 And then they set bail... 112 00:09:33,542 --> 00:09:38,792 the judge said he would let it leave with a bail of 10 thousand dollars. 113 00:09:38,998 --> 00:09:42,242 I approached and she was sitting in a seat there... 114 00:09:42,252 --> 00:09:45,112 and I went to where the lawyer was explaining the matter to us. 115 00:09:45,125 --> 00:09:49,751 Of course, we're a bunch of fools. We didn't understand the procedure. 116 00:09:49,876 --> 00:09:52,986 And the lawyer said we had to raise 10 thousand dollars. 117 00:09:52,998 --> 00:09:56,496 So I went back to where she was I sat down and said, "Mom... 118 00:09:56,502 --> 00:09:59,502 Do you have the checkbook with you?" And she said "Yes." 119 00:09:59,998 --> 00:10:04,978 And I said, "Jesus Christ, write a check for a thousand dollars." 120 00:10:04,998 --> 00:10:06,988 She asked: "What for?" 121 00:10:06,998 --> 00:10:12,032 I said, "They're talking a lot over there. They have to raise 10 thousand dollars, 122 00:10:12,042 --> 00:10:15,998 and they are talking a lot about "yes" and "when", but no one puts up money. 123 00:10:16,501 --> 00:10:18,988 I brought the check, I gave it to Charlie... 124 00:10:18,998 --> 00:10:22,959 and I said, "Charlie, here's a beginning for the 10 thousand". 125 00:10:23,083 --> 00:10:28,032 That started the game, geez, We gathered 10 thousand in 10, 15 minutes. 126 00:10:28,042 --> 00:10:31,167 Damn, it couldn't have hurt more if it was my own son. 127 00:10:31,998 --> 00:10:36,782 - We didn't believe it. - We have known the boy all our lives. 128 00:10:36,792 --> 00:10:38,856 He is not a boy, but he is younger than us. 129 00:10:38,876 --> 00:10:43,988 - Well, he's 60 and we're 80. - Much younger 130 00:10:43,998 --> 00:10:46,792 And after he removed his mustaches, He looked younger. 131 00:10:46,918 --> 00:10:49,032 He looked like Jesus Christ when they brought it. 132 00:10:49,042 --> 00:10:51,988 Did you see it before that he had mustaches? 133 00:10:51,998 --> 00:10:54,824 It made me think of Jesus Christ, in a way, you know? 134 00:10:54,834 --> 00:11:01,286 Not that he was a saint, so big or anything... 135 00:11:01,416 --> 00:11:03,709 but he was never a troublemaker. 136 00:11:05,375 --> 00:11:07,282 The prosecutor, I think... 137 00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:09,709 he wants to be elected again the next period. 138 00:11:10,542 --> 00:11:14,032 And this is... They're just trying to exaggerate this matter. 139 00:11:14,042 --> 00:11:18,574 It's a political thing. is someone trying to make a name for this. 140 00:11:18,584 --> 00:11:23,782 They choose someone like that... of whom no one would think anything. 141 00:11:23,792 --> 00:11:26,042 - They imagined they would lock him up. - Sure. 142 00:11:26,209 --> 00:11:30,240 Lock him up and put the other two in some home. 143 00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:32,657 - That would be all. - Forget about them. 144 00:11:32,667 --> 00:11:36,988 "But don't you think Bill Did he really die because he was sick? 145 00:11:36,998 --> 00:11:41,988 Lyman said that at night, Bill was choking and coughing. 146 00:11:41,998 --> 00:11:44,948 - Yes. - Cough. He coughed a lot. 147 00:11:44,959 --> 00:11:49,988 But if someone put their hand on you on the mouth, would you resist a little? 148 00:11:49,998 --> 00:11:52,488 Bill was much stronger that Delbert. 149 00:11:52,502 --> 00:11:54,115 I also believe the same. 150 00:11:54,125 --> 00:11:57,282 Delbert couldn't do that if Bill didn't want me to do it. 151 00:11:57,292 --> 00:12:00,448 They said he had been dead since midnight. 152 00:12:00,458 --> 00:12:01,814 That's right. 153 00:12:02,502 --> 00:12:06,908 He's going to kill his own brother and sleep next to him until 5:00 a.m? 154 00:12:06,918 --> 00:12:08,334 That's right. 155 00:12:08,751 --> 00:12:10,999 It's just incredible... 156 00:12:11,999 --> 00:12:13,999 what they try to plot and do. 157 00:12:24,834 --> 00:12:27,959 Delbert, what happened? the morning Bill died? 158 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,616 Well, I got up, I went out and I came back in... 159 00:12:31,626 --> 00:12:33,948 to put on my boots or shoes. 160 00:12:33,958 --> 00:12:38,416 I shouted at him, he didn't answer, he came in and that's where he was lying. 161 00:12:39,999 --> 00:12:41,792 He had died. 162 00:12:43,751 --> 00:12:48,988 - Died. So he woke up Roscoe. - I just looked at him. 163 00:12:48,998 --> 00:12:52,502 I didn't touch it or anything. I just looked at him. I saw that he was dead. 164 00:12:55,667 --> 00:12:58,167 - Did you have a pillow over your head? - No! 165 00:12:58,459 --> 00:12:59,999 I didn't have 166 00:13:01,542 --> 00:13:05,000 I only had a blanket that covered it up to here. 167 00:13:05,667 --> 00:13:07,999 I had a pillow underneath of the head. 168 00:13:09,584 --> 00:13:15,918 It was right under his head. And he had one arm extended, like this. 169 00:13:16,042 --> 00:13:18,125 I was lying like this... as if he were sleeping. 170 00:13:22,083 --> 00:13:24,542 I realize when someone is dead. 171 00:13:26,834 --> 00:13:28,834 You would realize it too. 172 00:13:29,998 --> 00:13:33,240 I didn't know what was happening until I got there and saw that he was dead. 173 00:13:33,250 --> 00:13:35,876 I took his arm. I was weak. 174 00:13:35,998 --> 00:13:38,198 I was not stiff, but he felt weak. 175 00:13:38,208 --> 00:13:41,282 Rather cold. It was not cold, but fresh. 176 00:13:41,292 --> 00:13:44,574 You could tell that his arm was cold. It was fresh. 177 00:13:44,584 --> 00:13:46,834 I didn't say cold. Cool. 178 00:13:46,999 --> 00:13:49,375 Damn, I don't think it was long ago that had died. 179 00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:52,959 It was 6:00. 180 00:13:54,999 --> 00:13:57,114 The emergency people arrived. 181 00:13:57,124 --> 00:14:00,696 It's interesting, in a scenario country like this... 182 00:14:00,708 --> 00:14:07,072 If Emergencies come, everyone in the Department. of Volunteer Firefighters appear. 183 00:14:07,082 --> 00:14:09,988 They all knew to the boys, of course. 184 00:14:09,998 --> 00:14:12,042 I hate calling you guys. 185 00:14:12,459 --> 00:14:15,834 They are known like this in the county... 186 00:14:15,999 --> 00:14:20,417 and I'm sure that for them it is not pejorative, but it sounds like it to me. 187 00:14:20,459 --> 00:14:22,834 The morning Bill died... 188 00:14:23,918 --> 00:14:25,918 John called me... 189 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:28,988 and I immediately went there... 190 00:14:28,998 --> 00:14:32,416 and I arrived about ten minutes later that he had called me. 191 00:14:33,667 --> 00:14:37,157 I told Delbert: "What do you want John and me to do?" 192 00:14:37,167 --> 00:14:40,908 Do you want us to do your homework? 193 00:14:40,918 --> 00:14:43,240 May we help you this morning or something else?" 194 00:14:43,252 --> 00:14:47,492 And Delbert said: "I would like you and John... 195 00:14:47,502 --> 00:14:51,208 go find a dark suit and a white shirt and a tie... 196 00:14:52,667 --> 00:14:54,042 for Bill." 197 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,999 And then I cried. 198 00:15:07,998 --> 00:15:12,782 As he left that morning, the police were sure that it was a natural death. 199 00:15:12,792 --> 00:15:15,996 No doubt in his mind. 200 00:15:16,751 --> 00:15:19,281 What happened next, apparently... 201 00:15:19,292 --> 00:15:23,996 They did an autopsy. 202 00:15:24,083 --> 00:15:27,741 They did it in about four hours. which, according to what they have told me... 203 00:15:27,751 --> 00:15:31,282 it's not really enough time for a well-done autopsy. 204 00:15:31,292 --> 00:15:35,407 In my opinion, as soon as they found something really suspicious, they stopped. 205 00:15:35,417 --> 00:15:41,032 The police took the three brothers to the barracks, I interrogated them... 206 00:15:41,042 --> 00:15:44,124 and they arrested Delbert, which, according to what they said, he confessed. 207 00:15:45,542 --> 00:15:47,240 What happened that night... 208 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:50,324 that those men in uniform Were they asking you questions? 209 00:15:50,334 --> 00:15:51,998 What happened that night? 210 00:15:52,876 --> 00:15:56,417 What happened that night that all those men were asking him questions? 211 00:15:57,751 --> 00:16:01,167 You said you were with the police. What happened that night? 212 00:16:01,999 --> 00:16:04,459 What kind of question did they ask? 213 00:16:06,167 --> 00:16:10,876 Well, they wanted to know if we heard some discussion, some noise. 214 00:16:11,083 --> 00:16:16,209 They wanted to know if we heard any gunshots or rifle or something that could be fired. 215 00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:19,999 - I told him no. - Do you think Delbert killed Bill? 216 00:16:20,250 --> 00:16:22,751 That's what they deduced, but... 217 00:16:23,626 --> 00:16:26,626 nobody believes it. That is not true. 218 00:16:26,959 --> 00:16:31,501 This is how everyone I talk to they tell it. 219 00:16:32,626 --> 00:16:36,999 What else did they ask you that night? Did they make you sign something? 220 00:16:38,417 --> 00:16:41,626 - Did you have to sign a paper? - Just the name. 221 00:16:41,999 --> 00:16:44,125 I wouldn't sign anything, just my name. 222 00:16:44,125 --> 00:16:47,918 Did they ask you to sign your name? Did you read what you signed? 223 00:16:49,918 --> 00:16:51,918 Yes, they wanted... 224 00:16:51,918 --> 00:16:54,751 It was about murder and stuff. 225 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,334 Brother Bill, yes, They had that written there. 226 00:16:59,334 --> 00:17:01,751 You didn't read any paper there. 227 00:17:01,751 --> 00:17:04,999 Not out loud. A police officer read it. 228 00:17:04,999 --> 00:17:07,834 He said, "Is there some truth there?" I said, "No." 229 00:17:07,834 --> 00:17:11,167 - Delbert, can Roscoe read? - Not very well, I don't think. 230 00:17:11,167 --> 00:17:13,083 I don't think he read it. 231 00:17:13,584 --> 00:17:16,876 Yes, they were terribly inquirers, but... 232 00:17:17,083 --> 00:17:19,209 I didn't know anything about that. 233 00:17:19,918 --> 00:17:21,999 What do you think will happen? 234 00:17:24,209 --> 00:17:26,751 They deduced that Delbert killed him. 235 00:17:28,334 --> 00:17:30,417 There was nothing of that. 236 00:17:30,751 --> 00:17:32,083 Isn't that true? 237 00:17:33,999 --> 00:17:35,999 No, it's not true. 238 00:17:35,999 --> 00:17:37,584 It's not true. 239 00:17:40,751 --> 00:17:43,417 Just like I said and always will say... 240 00:17:43,459 --> 00:17:45,459 He left on his own. 241 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,083 "NEW YORK STATE POLICE" 242 00:17:49,083 --> 00:17:51,999 "NEW YORK STATE POLICE" After making the preliminary investigation... 243 00:17:51,999 --> 00:17:55,375 it was early in the morning June 6... 244 00:17:55,417 --> 00:17:59,918 I received a phone call around 5:30 in the afternoon... 245 00:17:59,918 --> 00:18:02,999 from the medical examiner's office in Syracuse... 246 00:18:02,999 --> 00:18:07,083 regarding the cause and manner of the death of William Ward. 247 00:18:07,542 --> 00:18:10,250 The call was from Dr. Germaniuk... 248 00:18:10,250 --> 00:18:14,334 in which he explained that there was discovered some medical evidence... 249 00:18:14,334 --> 00:18:18,876 which suggested that death It was of suspicious origin... 250 00:18:18,876 --> 00:18:22,292 and that we should proceed with an investigation... 251 00:18:22,292 --> 00:18:27,501 regarding the circumstances of the death of William Ward. 252 00:18:37,334 --> 00:18:39,751 "You are telling us who told the truth to the jury today? 253 00:18:39,751 --> 00:18:43,209 Yes, I'm telling you that I told the truth. 254 00:18:43,751 --> 00:18:47,209 He is telling us that he didn't kill his brother? 255 00:18:47,209 --> 00:18:48,999 I didn't kill him. 256 00:18:49,626 --> 00:18:51,999 In his statement, you admit to killing your brother. 257 00:18:51,999 --> 00:18:54,626 I know I did, but I didn't know what he was saying. 258 00:18:54,626 --> 00:19:00,250 This was his best friend. you said it to the police that night I killed him. 259 00:19:00,250 --> 00:19:02,626 Yes, I told that to the police that night. 260 00:19:02,626 --> 00:19:04,584 Did he tell them the truth that night? 261 00:19:04,584 --> 00:19:07,918 It wasn't the truth. I didn't know what he was saying. 262 00:19:07,918 --> 00:19:10,999 You know the difference between the truth and a lie, right? 263 00:19:12,167 --> 00:19:14,167 Maybe yes, maybe not. 264 00:19:38,751 --> 00:19:40,999 There is a lot of history in this place. 265 00:19:46,334 --> 00:19:49,792 I've seen some of the boys the ones I grew up with come in here. 266 00:19:55,209 --> 00:19:58,999 - Do you know where it is? - No, not for sure. 267 00:19:59,792 --> 00:20:01,999 But it's made of wood, right? 268 00:20:02,501 --> 00:20:04,709 We hear that it is a wooden heart. 269 00:20:15,999 --> 00:20:18,501 God, there are a lot of people here that I know. 270 00:20:20,876 --> 00:20:22,999 That one that's there must be it. 271 00:20:28,876 --> 00:20:29,918 "Forever Love" 272 00:20:29,918 --> 00:20:32,501 "Forever Love" People shouldn't be treated like that because they are stupid. 273 00:20:32,501 --> 00:20:34,959 Not stupid really, uneducated. 274 00:20:34,959 --> 00:20:37,000 Any researcher in your right mind... 275 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,626 when they started to interrogate to these guys... 276 00:20:39,999 --> 00:20:41,999 I should have known... 277 00:20:42,042 --> 00:20:44,959 who did not have the education or anything like that... 278 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,000 to allow them to do anything without a lawyer. 279 00:20:48,709 --> 00:20:50,250 They should have known. 280 00:20:50,999 --> 00:20:53,083 They are intelligent people. 281 00:20:53,626 --> 00:20:56,542 But nevertheless, they were questioned everyone without a lawyer. 282 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,792 And Delbert, to this day, does not know What does it mean to give up your rights? 283 00:21:03,459 --> 00:21:06,999 They are simply words to him. I said, "What did you give up, Delbert... 284 00:21:06,999 --> 00:21:12,709 When did you do that?” "I don't know." That was his response. 285 00:21:12,834 --> 00:21:16,459 I asked him again last week. "What did you give up?" 286 00:21:16,459 --> 00:21:18,250 He still doesn't know. 287 00:21:18,999 --> 00:21:22,042 He gave up his rights, but he doesn't know what he gave up. 288 00:21:22,209 --> 00:21:25,918 I had no idea of what they were asking him. 289 00:21:25,999 --> 00:21:30,000 That's the truth. I mean, silly as it sounds... 290 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,626 That is the pure truth of God. 291 00:21:33,167 --> 00:21:36,667 So how can you condemn to someone like that. 292 00:21:36,667 --> 00:21:41,125 How could that statement be taken? without a lawyer present? 293 00:21:41,125 --> 00:21:45,876 Delbert's confession, that was obtained here, in the barracks... 294 00:21:46,542 --> 00:21:49,709 It consisted of Delbert... 295 00:21:49,709 --> 00:21:51,999 telling researchers of the state police... 296 00:21:51,999 --> 00:21:55,834 that he had thought of... 297 00:21:56,459 --> 00:21:58,250 kill William... 298 00:21:58,250 --> 00:21:59,999 due to suffering... 299 00:21:59,999 --> 00:22:03,125 that I had seen him suffer to William... 300 00:22:03,125 --> 00:22:05,959 during the last few months. 301 00:22:05,999 --> 00:22:11,083 And I emphasized the terrible pains headaches and stomach problems... 302 00:22:11,083 --> 00:22:15,250 and he had a problem with his foot that a cow had stepped on him. 303 00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:19,834 And, basically, he based his behavior criminal by killing William... 304 00:22:19,834 --> 00:22:22,959 in the fact that I felt that William... 305 00:22:22,959 --> 00:22:25,999 was suffering an extreme amount of pain. 306 00:22:25,999 --> 00:22:29,292 And that he felt... 307 00:22:29,876 --> 00:22:32,083 that he would kill his brother for these reasons. 308 00:22:34,918 --> 00:22:37,501 What last memories do you have of him? 309 00:22:37,959 --> 00:22:38,999 Oscar. 310 00:22:39,751 --> 00:22:41,959 What is your last memory of Bill? 311 00:22:42,751 --> 00:22:45,209 What is your last memory of Bill? 312 00:22:47,792 --> 00:22:49,292 Bill Ward? 313 00:22:56,083 --> 00:22:58,999 You just don't understand me, What is your last memory of Bill? 314 00:22:58,999 --> 00:23:00,792 Which one is...? 315 00:23:01,417 --> 00:23:03,584 Okay, it's for the movie. 316 00:23:03,626 --> 00:23:05,000 I don't want to be in the movie. 317 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,667 I don't care that you are in the movie. 318 00:23:06,667 --> 00:23:08,959 What is your last memory of Bill? 319 00:23:09,083 --> 00:23:12,000 My best memory? It's once we go out... 320 00:23:46,542 --> 00:23:51,417 If someone puts their hands over your mouth It would have to have marks, right? 321 00:23:54,999 --> 00:23:57,334 And he didn't have any marks. 322 00:24:00,459 --> 00:24:02,209 They said there was a pillow on his face. 323 00:24:02,209 --> 00:24:04,375 They put it there. 324 00:24:04,417 --> 00:24:07,334 -Who put the pillow on him? - The police, I think. 325 00:24:08,792 --> 00:24:12,959 Because the first time who showed me their photos... 326 00:24:12,959 --> 00:24:15,959 He lay just as I found him with nothing on it. 327 00:24:16,042 --> 00:24:19,000 Then they took me to court again... 328 00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:23,626 and that's when they showed it with a pillow over his face. 329 00:24:25,501 --> 00:24:27,999 Why would the police put a pillow over Bill's face? 330 00:24:27,999 --> 00:24:31,459 Well, because they want this here. 331 00:24:35,999 --> 00:24:37,751 This here. 332 00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:39,999 They want this land. 333 00:24:40,999 --> 00:24:46,501 We know that two of the police officers of the state who interviewed the neighbors... 334 00:24:46,501 --> 00:24:51,999 In addition to asking about the case, They asked if they wanted to sell their properties. 335 00:24:51,999 --> 00:24:54,918 Remember that this is an area... 336 00:24:54,918 --> 00:24:58,999 which is right on the border of the county. 337 00:24:58,999 --> 00:25:05,000 So these farms are worth a lot of money for investors. 338 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,542 Yes, it's true, it's one of the things most disgusting 339 00:25:08,542 --> 00:25:12,709 what I have seen as a lawyer in the last 13 � 14 years. 340 00:25:12,709 --> 00:25:21,999 Thinking that someone for financial reasons make a person make a confession 341 00:25:21,999 --> 00:25:25,542 or what is worse, put words in his mouth. 342 00:25:25,542 --> 00:25:33,292 I don't think there is any reason why someone wants to acquire their land... 343 00:25:33,292 --> 00:25:37,459 not to be another peasant who wants use it to grow it. 344 00:25:37,626 --> 00:25:43,167 And suggest that some state police involved in the investigation... 345 00:25:43,167 --> 00:25:46,999 I would have done something like this It's despicable. 346 00:25:58,083 --> 00:26:02,334 If someone grew up on a farm, when a cow has a calf... 347 00:26:02,709 --> 00:26:06,209 many times, she remains paralyzed on the back... 348 00:26:06,334 --> 00:26:08,417 and has trouble getting up. 349 00:26:08,417 --> 00:26:13,876 And if one manages to make it stop, It cannot be cleaned after delivery. 350 00:26:14,042 --> 00:26:16,999 So a common practice... 351 00:26:16,999 --> 00:26:19,125 among all the farmers... 352 00:26:20,501 --> 00:26:23,709 tighten the nostrils and mouth of a cow that is on the ground... 353 00:26:23,709 --> 00:26:28,542 and when she lacks air, the cow will jump and he will become healthy as before. 354 00:26:29,083 --> 00:26:32,167 I still feel, from the beginning... 355 00:26:32,999 --> 00:26:35,792 that the only thing that Delbert I was trying to do... 356 00:26:35,792 --> 00:26:39,999 was treating his brother like a cow because that's all he knew. 357 00:26:40,125 --> 00:26:43,000 I was just trying to do it Get up and go, I think. 358 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,876 I have no doubt in my mind that he died in his sleep. 359 00:26:47,999 --> 00:26:52,709 For these men, time stood still in the days when they were growing up. 360 00:26:52,709 --> 00:26:54,000 They were poor. 361 00:26:55,250 --> 00:26:57,792 If they had an animal that was suffering... 362 00:26:58,042 --> 00:27:01,999 They would not let the animal suffer. They would end his agony. 363 00:27:01,999 --> 00:27:03,999 That's how they think. 364 00:27:05,125 --> 00:27:08,999 for two brothers that they loved each other as much as they did... 365 00:27:09,542 --> 00:27:14,167 that one saw the other in so much pain day after day after day... 366 00:27:15,375 --> 00:27:17,999 You know, it's very likely that the man... 367 00:27:18,501 --> 00:27:21,292 They agreed among themselves, I'm sure... 368 00:27:21,334 --> 00:27:25,125 and Delbert didn't want to see him suffer anymore and took his life. 369 00:27:25,125 --> 00:27:27,918 "HERD'S HAIR SALON" 370 00:27:39,334 --> 00:27:40,751 "BENEFIT FOR DELBERT WARD" 371 00:27:40,751 --> 00:27:43,709 "BENEFIT FOR DELBERT WARD" - Are you anxious about tonight? - Yes, are you going to dance? 372 00:27:43,709 --> 00:27:45,999 - I'm going to dance. And you? - Yes. 373 00:27:46,042 --> 00:27:48,125 - Did you shave today? -Who? Me? 374 00:27:48,125 --> 00:27:49,999 - Yes. - I cut them off. 375 00:27:49,999 --> 00:27:52,584 - Why? - For tonight. 376 00:27:53,375 --> 00:27:56,167 - They got a little too long. - What thing got too long? 377 00:27:56,167 --> 00:27:58,542 - The mustaches. - So you cut them off? 378 00:27:58,542 --> 00:28:02,999 Those same ones. I couldn't get it all out, but most of it. 379 00:28:14,999 --> 00:28:17,999 - You are Lyman. - Lyman is there. He's coming here. 380 00:28:17,999 --> 00:28:20,000 - You're Roscoe. - Correct. Do you want me to help you? 381 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,959 - No. - It will help you. 382 00:28:21,959 --> 00:28:24,999 - You should know these guys by now. - I already know. 383 00:28:24,999 --> 00:28:27,375 - We are cousins. - That's right. 384 00:28:27,542 --> 00:28:29,626 Don't cry. 385 00:28:33,792 --> 00:28:35,542 What's for dinner? 386 00:28:35,792 --> 00:28:38,501 We have a little bit of everything, whatever you want. 387 00:28:38,501 --> 00:28:40,999 baked beans, schnitzel potatoes... 388 00:28:40,999 --> 00:28:42,999 fruit salad, noodle salad... 389 00:28:42,999 --> 00:28:45,709 I'll tell you something I bet because I never ate: 390 00:28:45,999 --> 00:28:48,042 roast venison in a clay pot. 391 00:28:48,250 --> 00:28:50,542 - Roasted venison? - Yes. 392 00:28:59,292 --> 00:29:03,292 What do you think of all this party? 393 00:29:03,292 --> 00:29:04,999 I think it's fine. 394 00:29:04,999 --> 00:29:06,792 Why do you think they are doing it? 395 00:29:06,792 --> 00:29:08,999 To help good friends. 396 00:29:17,292 --> 00:29:19,751 There are many people who say that what you did was good... 397 00:29:19,751 --> 00:29:24,501 and others who are supporting, that you did it out of mercy. 398 00:29:24,542 --> 00:29:28,250 - Do you have anything to say about it? - I'm not very proud of it. 399 00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:32,209 We believe this man is innocent and that's why we're at this party. 400 00:29:32,751 --> 00:29:35,125 We believed it from the first moment. 401 00:29:35,918 --> 00:29:37,918 And we will always believe it. 402 00:29:37,999 --> 00:29:38,999 Why? 403 00:29:40,459 --> 00:29:46,083 This is not the type of man, who commits such a perverse crime. 404 00:29:46,709 --> 00:29:49,584 It's not in his blood. 405 00:29:49,999 --> 00:29:53,417 He is an individual charming and calm. 406 00:29:54,042 --> 00:29:57,751 And I sincerely believe that This man will be acquitted. 407 00:29:58,459 --> 00:30:01,542 - My wife believes the same. - Did you know him? 408 00:30:01,542 --> 00:30:02,834 Yes, do I know him? 409 00:30:03,542 --> 00:30:05,042 My nephew... 410 00:30:05,999 --> 00:30:06,999 is... 411 00:30:07,125 --> 00:30:09,667 That would be his uncle. 412 00:30:10,334 --> 00:30:13,667 And I've seen it before on several occasions... 413 00:30:13,709 --> 00:30:18,375 and he is an individual very nice... 414 00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:22,334 that should never have been arrested, to start. 415 00:30:22,709 --> 00:30:23,999 Very good. 416 00:30:23,999 --> 00:30:25,792 We'll start in three, two... 417 00:30:26,167 --> 00:30:29,459 A murder trial is not uncommon for the state of New York. 418 00:30:29,459 --> 00:30:33,000 What is rare is the attention of the media you are receiving... 419 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,209 and the crowds that have shown up to support the accused murderer. 420 00:30:38,709 --> 00:30:40,042 One more time? 421 00:30:40,083 --> 00:30:43,501 A murder case is not uncommon for the state of New York. 422 00:30:43,501 --> 00:30:46,999 What is rare is the attention of the media that this is receiving... 423 00:30:46,999 --> 00:30:51,417 and the crowds that have shown up to support the accused murderer. 424 00:31:25,999 --> 00:31:27,999 ...to the county where next week 425 00:31:27,999 --> 00:31:30,459 the lawyers of both parties They are going to present evidence to the judge. 426 00:31:30,459 --> 00:31:31,999 Although there are certain people with optimism... 427 00:31:31,999 --> 00:31:35,375 It's frustrating to know that the only thing What you can do is sit and wait. 428 00:31:37,501 --> 00:31:39,876 Alice Alexandra, for the News Center. 429 00:31:40,999 --> 00:31:42,626 How are you, Delbert? 430 00:32:09,417 --> 00:32:12,667 I really believe What most people thought... 431 00:32:12,792 --> 00:32:15,876 that they took care of of his own things. 432 00:32:15,876 --> 00:32:17,751 They were different. 433 00:32:17,959 --> 00:32:21,125 As long as they didn't step on one's feet, Why should we step on them? 434 00:32:21,125 --> 00:32:26,584 When I went to the candy store or wherever I went to eat... 435 00:32:26,999 --> 00:32:29,999 I hated having to eat after them... 436 00:32:30,042 --> 00:32:31,999 Wouldn't you feel the same? 437 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,459 You know, one was not going and sat on his butt... 438 00:32:35,459 --> 00:32:38,417 at the same table where they were sitting. 439 00:32:38,417 --> 00:32:42,999 One walked away a little because, damn, the stench... 440 00:32:42,999 --> 00:32:44,959 It could suffocate you. 441 00:32:45,250 --> 00:32:47,959 They sweat, they worked and, damn... 442 00:32:47,959 --> 00:32:51,209 I don't think they changed their clothes In six months, maybe... 443 00:32:51,209 --> 00:32:54,209 unless they were going to a funeral or something like that. 444 00:32:54,209 --> 00:32:58,292 But they went to the girls' weddings and there they were very well dressed. 445 00:32:58,292 --> 00:33:02,751 - But anyway, you helped them. - Correct and I would help them again. 446 00:33:04,292 --> 00:33:07,542 Hell, they're part of this damned community. 447 00:33:07,584 --> 00:33:11,459 We never had a murder here, that I remember. 448 00:33:11,459 --> 00:33:17,375 This antagonism has always existed between the big city and rural areas. 449 00:33:17,501 --> 00:33:21,999 You know, if you are born in the rural area and it's going well... 450 00:33:21,999 --> 00:33:25,542 It has to mean he's going to the city. and it's going well. 451 00:33:25,876 --> 00:33:30,999 It's not like you start your own business. It's going to the city and doing something big. 452 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,083 And city people, I think, tend to look to the country people as louts... 453 00:33:37,292 --> 00:33:39,999 as probably not very smart... 454 00:33:40,292 --> 00:33:43,334 and perhaps, not too motivated. 455 00:33:43,334 --> 00:33:47,999 Nothing could be further from the truth, If you look at how these farmers work. 456 00:33:49,250 --> 00:33:52,918 And I suspect that the stereotype of the city... 457 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,000 It's probably inside the heads of the investigators and the prosecutor... 458 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,459 and they probably don't know it. It's part of the culture... 459 00:34:00,459 --> 00:34:03,626 that one would think that a rural area Be it like that, do you understand? 460 00:34:03,667 --> 00:34:05,375 And I believe... 461 00:34:07,959 --> 00:34:09,626 I think maybe... 462 00:34:09,751 --> 00:34:16,209 that part of community support from Munnsville to Delbert... 463 00:34:16,999 --> 00:34:19,083 It's "Us vs. Them." 464 00:34:19,083 --> 00:34:22,999 "They" being the "Big City Prosecutor"... 465 00:34:22,999 --> 00:34:25,959 trying to catch poor Delbert in the hills. 466 00:34:42,584 --> 00:34:44,999 The boys never received attention before. 467 00:34:44,999 --> 00:34:49,751 When they had the dances for him here and organized the benefits... 468 00:34:50,626 --> 00:34:52,626 For Delbert, that was a party. 469 00:34:53,626 --> 00:34:55,250 He didn't realize, I don't think... 470 00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:58,999 that we were raising money for his defense, so that he would not go to prison. 471 00:34:58,999 --> 00:35:01,876 Nobody had ever done a party for the Wards. 472 00:35:02,167 --> 00:35:03,999 Never in their lives. 473 00:35:04,751 --> 00:35:07,751 Here, suddenly, are all these people around him... 474 00:35:07,751 --> 00:35:11,999 offering him a party and Delbert He is dancing for the first time in his life. 475 00:35:12,250 --> 00:35:14,209 People are asking him to dance... 476 00:35:14,209 --> 00:35:17,999 and they wouldn't have done that before even if they had been paid to do it. 477 00:35:17,999 --> 00:35:23,250 Because of what arises in the area, The Wards were something of an outcast. 478 00:35:23,250 --> 00:35:26,709 You know, they were not accepted in general there. 479 00:35:27,083 --> 00:35:33,667 It's something that the people who live there consider someone an outcast... 480 00:35:33,709 --> 00:35:35,459 but he was still their outcast. 481 00:35:35,501 --> 00:35:38,125 Now, if it's someone else... 482 00:35:38,125 --> 00:35:41,999 the one that analyzes the lifestyle of the people there... 483 00:35:41,999 --> 00:35:44,000 and accuses them of something... 484 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,709 It seems natural to me that in these areas rural people come together. 485 00:35:48,709 --> 00:35:51,876 They join with their own... the people of the area. 486 00:35:51,876 --> 00:35:56,834 And they went to support him, for being someone without advantages... 487 00:35:56,834 --> 00:35:59,999 without really caring, in my opinion... 488 00:35:59,999 --> 00:36:02,292 whether I was right or wrong at that point. 489 00:36:02,292 --> 00:36:04,999 He was simply one of them. 490 00:36:04,999 --> 00:36:06,999 Delberet told me... 491 00:36:06,999 --> 00:36:10,999 What were they asking him? all kinds of questions... 492 00:36:10,999 --> 00:36:14,792 and he was saying yes and no, and he was getting tired... 493 00:36:14,792 --> 00:36:16,584 and one of the policemen told him: 494 00:36:16,584 --> 00:36:19,667 "Delbert, if you sign this paper, I will take him home. 495 00:36:19,667 --> 00:36:21,667 "I see you're tired." 496 00:36:21,792 --> 00:36:25,999 Delbert said: "I signed the papers and I put on the handcuffs... 497 00:36:26,459 --> 00:36:28,999 and he took me to the cell." 498 00:36:32,999 --> 00:36:34,999 Makes one have doubts, doesn't it? 499 00:36:41,542 --> 00:36:43,918 The first time in life that I was in jail. 500 00:36:44,709 --> 00:36:46,542 I hope it's the last one. 501 00:36:47,417 --> 00:36:49,042 I didn't have much room. 502 00:36:49,042 --> 00:36:50,999 It wasn't wider... 503 00:36:51,125 --> 00:36:54,167 that from here to where you are standing. 504 00:36:54,250 --> 00:36:58,209 He came out in front of the cell... The cell was a small... 505 00:36:58,292 --> 00:37:01,626 cement floor and then, the little room I had... 506 00:37:01,626 --> 00:37:04,667 To enter it had a tile floor. 507 00:37:05,375 --> 00:37:08,999 The only place there was to sit It was like that. 508 00:37:08,999 --> 00:37:12,375 Sits on the cement and leans against the blocks. 509 00:37:13,417 --> 00:37:17,209 - Had you been in a place like this before? - No never. 510 00:37:19,999 --> 00:37:22,792 - Didn't you sign a confession? - Yes. 511 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:23,999 Why? 512 00:37:23,999 --> 00:37:28,125 Because I didn't know what I was doing. I was nervous and shocked. 513 00:37:28,667 --> 00:37:30,417 What did they make you sign? 514 00:37:30,417 --> 00:37:33,999 Two or three papers. You had to initial them. 515 00:37:33,999 --> 00:37:37,167 - Did you read the papers? - I didn't have my glasses. 516 00:37:37,167 --> 00:37:39,999 - Can you read? - A little bit, not much. 517 00:37:41,542 --> 00:37:44,375 It wouldn't have been any use to me If I had the glasses... 518 00:37:44,375 --> 00:37:46,626 because they were no good anyway. 519 00:37:46,709 --> 00:37:48,999 What did they tell you to get him to sign? 520 00:37:49,167 --> 00:37:51,751 I don't know. What did they tell me? 521 00:37:56,999 --> 00:37:59,792 - Did they read it to you? - Yes, they read it. 522 00:37:59,834 --> 00:38:03,292 - Did you understand it? - Some things I understood, others I didn't. 523 00:38:06,125 --> 00:38:08,584 �They told him he could go home if he signed it? 524 00:38:08,584 --> 00:38:11,918 - No, they didn't tell me that. - What did they say? 525 00:38:12,584 --> 00:38:15,125 Well, they said: "We would be more benign with you." 526 00:38:16,751 --> 00:38:18,999 - We would be more benign... - With me. 527 00:38:20,334 --> 00:38:21,999 But it wasn't like that. 528 00:38:23,999 --> 00:38:25,459 I don't think so. 529 00:38:37,459 --> 00:38:40,584 When we were before the grand jury, Delbert was given a photo... 530 00:38:40,584 --> 00:38:44,250 and was asked to identify it. It was a photo... 531 00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:46,542 from his brother lying face down on the bed. 532 00:38:46,542 --> 00:38:49,542 The interesting thing is that there was a pillow... 533 00:38:49,751 --> 00:38:52,209 which seemed to be on the face. 534 00:38:52,709 --> 00:38:55,999 I don't know how or why the photograph was offered. 535 00:38:55,999 --> 00:38:58,584 Wait, For the sake of Mr. Cerio... 536 00:38:58,584 --> 00:39:03,292 who did not offer to represent the body as it was when found... 537 00:39:03,292 --> 00:39:06,667 because if that is the case, That is not a real photograph. 538 00:39:06,667 --> 00:39:08,083 In fact, the body... 539 00:39:08,083 --> 00:39:12,918 when I found him that morning the first person in the room... 540 00:39:12,999 --> 00:39:14,417 I didn't have any pillow nearby. 541 00:39:14,417 --> 00:39:17,209 In regards to the manufacture of tests... 542 00:39:17,209 --> 00:39:21,999 regarding putting a pillow on the face of William Ward... 543 00:39:21,999 --> 00:39:25,918 regarding taking photographs from the scene... 544 00:39:26,999 --> 00:39:29,999 I would like to use the term "atrocious", regarding that... 545 00:39:29,999 --> 00:39:33,167 because the state police is not in business... 546 00:39:33,167 --> 00:39:36,626 to manufacture any type of physical evidence. 547 00:39:36,709 --> 00:39:38,834 We are guided by the merits of the case... 548 00:39:38,834 --> 00:39:42,792 and if the merits of the case support and suggest... 549 00:39:42,792 --> 00:39:45,000 that there is criminal guilt, then we proceed. 550 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,375 If not, we conclude our case and we close it with investigation. 551 00:39:51,042 --> 00:39:54,792 Lyman, what were you telling me? about the women of the town? 552 00:39:54,792 --> 00:39:57,250 - There are pretty women in the town. -Yes? 553 00:39:57,250 --> 00:40:00,751 - Sure. I know them all. - What do you think? 554 00:40:00,751 --> 00:40:02,667 - There are pretty women. -Yes? 555 00:40:02,667 --> 00:40:03,709 Yes. 556 00:40:04,417 --> 00:40:07,918 They are very good friends. Yes. 557 00:40:07,918 --> 00:40:10,000 The women I knew are no longer here. 558 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,999 They are no longer there. The young women... 559 00:40:13,751 --> 00:40:16,918 - You get married and disappear! - You get married and disappear! 560 00:40:17,667 --> 00:40:19,999 Did you guys used to have girlfriends? 561 00:40:19,999 --> 00:40:23,459 - No, I didn't have any. - Lyman never wanted a girlfriend. 562 00:40:23,459 --> 00:40:25,751 - I didn't want to have any. - Me neither. 563 00:40:25,751 --> 00:40:28,334 - Why? - I don't know. I just didn't want them. 564 00:40:28,334 --> 00:40:30,999 - You have to put that on their finger. - Yes! 565 00:40:33,542 --> 00:40:35,959 - Have you never thought about getting married? - No! 566 00:40:35,999 --> 00:40:38,709 - Let's go! - No, sir. That's not my territory. 567 00:40:38,709 --> 00:40:41,751 I never thought about it nor would I think about it. Not at all! 568 00:40:42,501 --> 00:40:44,999 Even with all those pretty women what you bring, I wouldn't think about it. 569 00:40:45,626 --> 00:40:47,751 I don't. No, sir. 570 00:40:49,083 --> 00:40:51,876 My brother Bill He didn't want women either. 571 00:40:52,167 --> 00:40:54,918 Ike, the one over there, my cousin on the bus... 572 00:40:54,999 --> 00:40:56,999 He doesn't want any woman. 573 00:40:59,042 --> 00:41:01,459 He said he prefers to live alone... 574 00:41:02,792 --> 00:41:06,042 spend the nights with your radio amateur... 575 00:41:06,542 --> 00:41:08,375 and watch your television. 576 00:41:22,876 --> 00:41:24,125 "STATE POLICE "D" TROOP BARRACKS 577 00:41:24,125 --> 00:41:26,542 "STATE POLICE "D" TROOP BARRACKS Lyman eventually told us... 578 00:41:26,542 --> 00:41:30,876 that they had talked about killing William a couple of days before his death. 579 00:41:30,876 --> 00:41:34,626 That conversation took place in front of his residence. 580 00:41:34,626 --> 00:41:38,334 Lyman said it was under a big tree in front of his house... 581 00:41:38,334 --> 00:41:43,459 where Delbert approached to Lyman and said: 582 00:41:43,751 --> 00:41:45,999 "You know, Brother William He is suffering a lot... 583 00:41:45,999 --> 00:41:49,876 with his stomach and his head. He has constant headaches. 584 00:41:49,876 --> 00:41:53,876 I think it's time we do something to help you." 585 00:41:53,999 --> 00:41:58,751 Lyman asked Delbert: "What does 'time for us to do something' mean?" 586 00:41:58,751 --> 00:42:03,167 And he said, "I think we should kill him so that he does not suffer any more." 587 00:42:03,292 --> 00:42:07,999 Originally, they spoke how I was going to kill him... 588 00:42:07,999 --> 00:42:09,709 or how Delbert was going to kill him. 589 00:42:10,167 --> 00:42:13,918 And Delbert decided that he was going to use a rifle and shoot him in the head. 590 00:42:15,042 --> 00:42:17,999 Lyman had explained which was very unpleasant... 591 00:42:17,999 --> 00:42:21,417 and I didn't want to do it that way, or that it was done that way. 592 00:42:21,417 --> 00:42:23,999 And it was decided that Delbert it would suffocate him... 593 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,876 and I would kill him. 594 00:42:40,501 --> 00:42:43,626 How am I sure? that you all know... 595 00:42:43,626 --> 00:42:47,167 one of the problems I've had with the incredible siege of the press... 596 00:42:47,459 --> 00:42:49,626 it's just... 597 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,876 introducing Delbert to a new world to which he is not accustomed. 598 00:42:54,876 --> 00:42:59,999 And by presenting that to him, It is changing it in a certain way. 599 00:43:00,459 --> 00:43:03,042 It's for my benefit... 600 00:43:03,918 --> 00:43:07,083 I should say it's for benefit of him appearing before the jury... 601 00:43:07,083 --> 00:43:12,626 as he was on the date he was incident supposedly took place. 602 00:43:13,125 --> 00:43:15,125 I would hate... 603 00:43:15,959 --> 00:43:19,334 comes to mind the example of him declaring... 604 00:43:19,334 --> 00:43:22,918 in a leather suit with straight hair... 605 00:43:22,918 --> 00:43:24,999 and wearing sunglasses. 606 00:43:24,999 --> 00:43:28,417 That would never happen, but I don't want it to change. 607 00:43:28,999 --> 00:43:31,999 He is still, obviously, a shy, gentle person... 608 00:43:31,999 --> 00:43:36,250 but in a way he is learning the things of the world. 609 00:43:52,999 --> 00:43:57,999 One dollar... One and a half... 1.75... Two dollars... and 25 cents... 610 00:43:57,999 --> 00:44:01,959 - Two and a half. - Two and a half... 25 more? 611 00:44:05,918 --> 00:44:08,584 It seems strange to see Delbert here without Bill. 612 00:44:08,584 --> 00:44:11,584 35, 40 years ago I know the boys. 613 00:44:11,584 --> 00:44:14,667 - I never saw them separated. - I never saw them separated. 614 00:44:14,667 --> 00:44:18,501 - Delbert is changing, I think. - Delbert is changing. Yes. 615 00:44:32,876 --> 00:44:36,626 Delbert hasn't changed in 40 years, that is yes. 616 00:44:36,626 --> 00:44:37,626 No, it hasn't changed. 617 00:44:37,626 --> 00:44:41,501 If Delbert says something to you, can believe it. 618 00:44:41,501 --> 00:44:43,999 If this man says, "Good morning," It has to see if it is night. 619 00:44:43,999 --> 00:44:48,501 I used to see Delbert when he was that tall. 620 00:44:48,501 --> 00:44:51,083 Delbert was already coming. Isn't that true, Delbert? 621 00:44:51,751 --> 00:44:55,125 I was 15 years old when Delbert was born. 622 00:44:55,125 --> 00:44:57,999 Delbert is a good boy. It always has been. 623 00:44:58,999 --> 00:45:03,042 When it all comes down to it, the goodness of his heart arises. 624 00:45:03,042 --> 00:45:06,918 That's what I believe from the beginning, and I still believe it today. 625 00:45:19,125 --> 00:45:24,250 Well I think probably yes he did it for... 626 00:45:25,209 --> 00:45:26,999 But at first, I didn't believe it. 627 00:45:26,999 --> 00:45:30,918 Then when we started to put the pieces together... 628 00:45:30,918 --> 00:45:32,999 with Bill's problems and all that... 629 00:45:32,999 --> 00:45:36,834 and if he was suffering, It wouldn't be hard to believe... 630 00:45:37,125 --> 00:45:41,250 that he would end his misfortune as one would do with a sick cat. 631 00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:43,709 But it was hard to talk about it with Delbert around... 632 00:45:43,709 --> 00:45:46,999 because you probably feel bad. 633 00:45:47,751 --> 00:45:50,167 They have been very good boys. 634 00:45:58,792 --> 00:46:01,292 Our goal in any question... 635 00:46:01,292 --> 00:46:05,000 is to request incriminating responses. 636 00:46:05,167 --> 00:46:09,751 I mean, our business It's doing police work... 637 00:46:09,751 --> 00:46:12,209 and do effective police work... 638 00:46:12,209 --> 00:46:15,918 and we use the methods and techniques... 639 00:46:15,959 --> 00:46:18,459 that are more productive for us. 640 00:46:18,459 --> 00:46:22,292 In my opinion, "question and answer" It is the most productive thing in an interrogation. 641 00:46:24,542 --> 00:46:28,959 �You were perplexed somehow on June 6... 642 00:46:28,959 --> 00:46:31,083 for all this procedure? 643 00:46:31,209 --> 00:46:34,292 - No, I guess not. - Do you know what "perplexed" means? 644 00:46:34,292 --> 00:46:35,834 No, I don't know. 645 00:46:36,334 --> 00:46:39,999 Briefly we ask if you knew your rights. 646 00:46:40,709 --> 00:46:46,542 He told us that he watched television, especially Hunters... 647 00:46:46,542 --> 00:46:48,626 which is a detective program. 648 00:46:48,626 --> 00:46:53,584 So he did know some of his rights. Yes, I already knew them. 649 00:46:53,959 --> 00:46:57,584 They hinted at you in some way that maybe you had killed Bill? 650 00:46:57,667 --> 00:46:59,501 Yes. They showed me how I did it. 651 00:46:59,501 --> 00:47:02,125 - Could you show me? - Yes, I could show you. 652 00:47:02,125 --> 00:47:03,999 Well, go ahead, show me. 653 00:47:06,459 --> 00:47:10,751 Adjust and tighten. You can't kill me. 654 00:47:14,626 --> 00:47:19,292 What he told us that night That's what I'm telling you. 655 00:47:19,375 --> 00:47:23,000 After the fact, they got many words in his mouth... 656 00:47:23,501 --> 00:47:24,999 but there was no... 657 00:47:24,999 --> 00:47:28,792 The researcher Rifenberg He did not show it on me, or I on him. 658 00:47:28,792 --> 00:47:31,417 Your exact way of doing it it was that he put his hand... 659 00:47:31,542 --> 00:47:33,999 over his own mouth to indicate how he did it. 660 00:47:43,709 --> 00:47:47,999 So, at that point, they want to take a typed statement, correct? 661 00:47:47,999 --> 00:47:50,792 - Yes. - They want to put that in writing. 662 00:47:50,792 --> 00:47:52,876 - And they told that to you. - Yes. 663 00:47:52,876 --> 00:47:54,542 - And you said yes. - Yes. 664 00:47:54,542 --> 00:47:57,375 Remember that they told you that it was a crime... 665 00:47:57,375 --> 00:48:00,334 in New York State make a false statement? 666 00:48:00,334 --> 00:48:02,751 - Yes. - And you understood that? 667 00:48:02,751 --> 00:48:03,999 No, I didn't understand. 668 00:48:03,999 --> 00:48:06,584 "I didn't understand" What is a crime to lie? 669 00:48:06,999 --> 00:48:08,959 Because I knew that he had not killed him. 670 00:48:09,250 --> 00:48:13,000 Then they said to him: "If this is the truth, sign this statement." 671 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,834 - Do you remember him telling you that? - Yes, I remember. 672 00:48:15,834 --> 00:48:18,626 -And you signed the declaration? - Yes, I signed it. 673 00:48:18,999 --> 00:48:21,000 Now, he wasn't handcuffed. - No. 674 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,999 He did not have his weapons drawn, pointing at him. 675 00:48:22,999 --> 00:48:24,000 No. 676 00:48:24,626 --> 00:48:26,876 �He says they read this to him 4 � 5 times? 677 00:48:26,876 --> 00:48:28,999 - Something like that. - Something like that. 678 00:48:29,083 --> 00:48:32,083 �Each time he told them that this was the truth and those were their answers? 679 00:48:32,083 --> 00:48:36,751 Yes. I thought that if I cooperated with them, It would come out, but it didn't. 680 00:48:41,709 --> 00:48:45,375 "SLOWLY - ATTENTION TO 75 COWS, 2 DOGS AND 1 OLD MAN" 681 00:48:47,083 --> 00:48:48,999 They jumped from... 682 00:48:48,999 --> 00:48:51,417 incest sex... 683 00:48:51,417 --> 00:48:54,125 or whatever you want to call it, among the boys... 684 00:48:54,125 --> 00:48:57,999 to a merciful death to... What the hell?...Who knows? 685 00:48:58,542 --> 00:49:02,584 They still haven't found any reason why would he kill him. 686 00:49:03,334 --> 00:49:06,083 Bill was the force behind this family. 687 00:49:06,083 --> 00:49:07,959 He was the boss. 688 00:49:08,125 --> 00:49:11,292 He walked ahead and Delbert walked behind him. 689 00:49:11,292 --> 00:49:15,626 When Bill stopped, Delbert crashed with him. Bill led and Delbert followed. 690 00:49:16,250 --> 00:49:18,999 They walked with the same pair of shoes... 691 00:49:18,999 --> 00:49:22,083 so Delbert no way I would have done nothing to Bill. 692 00:49:23,250 --> 00:49:25,834 According to my information... 693 00:49:25,999 --> 00:49:29,626 and it should be registered now... 694 00:49:29,626 --> 00:49:33,626 They had Bill's body for two days at the funeral home to do... 695 00:49:34,042 --> 00:49:36,459 a rape test on him. 696 00:49:38,459 --> 00:49:42,999 The result was "inconclusive" or however the hell they said it. 697 00:49:43,334 --> 00:49:46,999 - So that was nothing. - What were they looking for? 698 00:49:47,250 --> 00:49:49,918 Sperm on Bill's body. 699 00:49:51,125 --> 00:49:53,918 That's because they always slept together. 700 00:49:54,167 --> 00:49:56,876 If they had found it, what difference does that make? 701 00:49:56,876 --> 00:49:59,167 There are many boys in New York City... 702 00:49:59,167 --> 00:50:01,876 where do you come from, who sleep together. 703 00:50:02,125 --> 00:50:05,250 And they are not doing it either because it is a way of life. 704 00:50:05,999 --> 00:50:09,999 I mean, that wouldn't have had any weight in the case, in my opinion. 705 00:50:10,334 --> 00:50:12,375 We have lesbians and "gays" everywhere... 706 00:50:12,375 --> 00:50:16,751 So why do they bother? with Bill and Delbert? I don't understand that... 707 00:50:16,751 --> 00:50:20,999 but they were looking for something to justify what they were doing. 708 00:50:22,125 --> 00:50:24,626 That would be my understanding of the matter. 709 00:50:25,626 --> 00:50:26,999 Like a witch hunt. 710 00:50:27,876 --> 00:50:30,501 Like merciful death. He hasn't been sick... 711 00:50:30,501 --> 00:50:33,250 More than normal for Bill. 712 00:50:33,250 --> 00:50:35,292 Bill was always limping or crushed... 713 00:50:35,292 --> 00:50:37,999 or with an injured arm or something. 714 00:50:38,834 --> 00:50:43,292 Every time I saw him, he always had something that had been hurt... 715 00:50:44,999 --> 00:50:46,834 so he wasn't sick. 716 00:50:47,042 --> 00:50:51,000 That would rule out mercy killing, so what else could they invent? 717 00:50:51,626 --> 00:50:53,626 I think probably... 718 00:50:53,876 --> 00:50:56,000 There are very narrow-minded people... 719 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,999 that it doesn't matter who slept together, They would have to think the worst of them. 720 00:50:59,999 --> 00:51:02,375 This is how our society works. 721 00:51:02,375 --> 00:51:06,918 We didn't go back a hundred years when Whatever he did was right. 722 00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:10,999 Before we had heat, and the boys didn't have heat... 723 00:51:10,999 --> 00:51:13,999 so they slept together probably to keep warm. 724 00:51:14,209 --> 00:51:17,834 So as not to freeze to death. Before we had the wood stove... 725 00:51:17,834 --> 00:51:21,000 and one burned his belly and his butt froze. 726 00:51:21,542 --> 00:51:24,709 When one went to bed, there was no heating in all rooms. 727 00:51:24,792 --> 00:51:27,083 I think these guys They are like that too. 728 00:51:27,876 --> 00:51:31,709 They slept together when they were children, And why would they change? 729 00:51:31,834 --> 00:51:34,792 It was a comfortable arrangement wherever it is considered. 730 00:51:35,542 --> 00:51:40,584 It was just a custom. This is not the most educated people in the world. 731 00:51:40,584 --> 00:51:45,042 It never occurred to them that they would question why they slept in the same bed. 732 00:51:47,042 --> 00:51:50,876 Before Bill died, I don't think anyone paid attention. 733 00:51:51,083 --> 00:51:53,334 It would never have occurred to him. 734 00:51:54,959 --> 00:51:58,292 I don't understand why Someone would like to kill Bill. 735 00:51:58,999 --> 00:52:01,999 I have known them for over 50 years. 736 00:52:01,999 --> 00:52:04,584 However, I have been to his house twice. 737 00:52:05,083 --> 00:52:09,501 If he hit someone, it's his problem, It's nobody's problem. 738 00:52:10,292 --> 00:52:14,250 So when the detectives said that, It surprised me. 739 00:52:16,167 --> 00:52:18,709 I think they invent more things... 740 00:52:18,959 --> 00:52:20,999 after you kicked the bucket. 741 00:52:24,959 --> 00:52:28,209 -When was this house built? - It was in... 742 00:52:28,334 --> 00:52:29,584 65. 743 00:52:30,792 --> 00:52:33,999 Mom lived in it for a year before passing away. 744 00:52:33,999 --> 00:52:36,125 And she died in '65. 745 00:52:36,501 --> 00:52:39,667 - Or 64. - 64, probably. 746 00:52:40,584 --> 00:52:42,125 I would say yes. 747 00:52:44,999 --> 00:52:48,209 - Was there a house here before? - An old house, on this side. 748 00:52:48,209 --> 00:52:49,999 From this other side. 749 00:52:52,584 --> 00:52:54,584 What was your mother like? 750 00:52:55,167 --> 00:52:57,292 He was a good person, good lady... 751 00:52:57,292 --> 00:53:00,334 good mother He would do anything for you. 752 00:53:06,667 --> 00:53:08,667 He died of cancer. 753 00:53:09,999 --> 00:53:12,918 - Isn't that right, Delbert? - Mom. Dad too. 754 00:53:12,918 --> 00:53:14,042 Yes. 755 00:53:14,876 --> 00:53:16,999 His sister Emma had them. 756 00:53:17,999 --> 00:53:19,999 Moses' mother. 757 00:53:20,250 --> 00:53:22,375 I think Bill died with cancer too. 758 00:53:22,375 --> 00:53:24,542 I think so. Yes. 759 00:53:55,959 --> 00:53:57,999 I don't think it will be of any use to you. 760 00:54:54,292 --> 00:54:56,584 It's like ten dollars. 761 00:55:03,751 --> 00:55:06,375 "BEECH-NUT CHEWING TOBACCO SOFTER and MOISTER" 762 00:55:37,250 --> 00:55:40,959 Our first part is about people that are not seen on television. 763 00:55:40,959 --> 00:55:44,626 They are like from another era. It's incredible. 764 00:55:44,626 --> 00:55:46,709 You have to see this story. 765 00:55:46,709 --> 00:55:50,751 It's the story of brothers Delbert, Roscoe and Bill. 766 00:55:50,751 --> 00:55:53,999 They were all born and they grew up in a hut... 767 00:55:53,999 --> 00:55:57,834 in Munnsville, a small town of New York State. 768 00:55:57,834 --> 00:56:02,542 The Ward brothers have lived on this farm how we lived 200 years ago. 769 00:56:02,542 --> 00:56:07,292 They never learned to read, to write, It had no running water or modern equipment. 770 00:56:07,292 --> 00:56:09,999 No one ever in town I paid a lot of attention to them. 771 00:56:09,999 --> 00:56:15,792 Until last year in the summer they accused Delbert of killing his older brother. 772 00:56:15,792 --> 00:56:18,751 Suddenly all the people They crowded around Delbert. 773 00:56:18,751 --> 00:56:22,667 It's hard to express in words, how simple they are. 774 00:56:22,667 --> 00:56:25,459 They never really matured. 775 00:56:26,999 --> 00:56:30,542 They were always simple children. 776 00:56:30,999 --> 00:56:32,999 You just have to see their faces. 777 00:56:32,999 --> 00:56:35,999 He wouldn't even have killed to a half dead cat. 778 00:56:35,999 --> 00:56:38,999 So they're talking about him killing Bill, sure not. 779 00:56:39,375 --> 00:56:41,250 He didn't do it. 780 00:56:41,876 --> 00:56:43,999 What did the police ask you that night? 781 00:56:44,209 --> 00:56:48,125 They asked me if I killed him, When I told them no, they didn't want to believe me. 782 00:56:48,250 --> 00:56:50,792 They said. you did it, you did it 783 00:56:51,125 --> 00:56:54,334 - You told him that you didn't kill him. - Yes, but they didn't want to believe me. 784 00:56:54,334 --> 00:57:03,250 I shook his hand and I held it for 5 minutes. 785 00:57:05,876 --> 00:57:08,209 You told me that's what I did. 786 00:57:08,209 --> 00:57:09,999 That's how it was. 787 00:57:09,999 --> 00:57:12,999 You told me what I did. 788 00:57:15,542 --> 00:57:20,417 That son of a bitch didn't arrive until 7:30 789 00:57:20,417 --> 00:57:24,250 - ...and he made us confess... - That son of a bitch is a lawyer. 790 00:57:24,250 --> 00:57:29,083 The condemned man had to have arrived and didn't arrive until 7:30. 791 00:57:29,083 --> 00:57:31,626 to read you your confession. 792 00:57:32,999 --> 00:57:34,999 - Are you crying? - No. 793 00:57:34,999 --> 00:57:37,999 - Sometimes I get sentimental. - Yes. 794 00:57:37,999 --> 00:57:39,918 When do you cry, Delbert? 795 00:57:39,918 --> 00:57:42,292 When Bill died. 796 00:57:42,459 --> 00:57:49,083 When some of my other friends die, I will start to cry. 797 00:57:49,999 --> 00:57:54,584 After 20 days he was imposed a bail of 10 thousand dollars. 798 00:57:54,584 --> 00:58:01,792 And the residents of Munnsville managed to gather the money to release it in a single day. 799 00:58:01,792 --> 00:58:05,292 We are your friends and we always will be. 800 00:58:05,999 --> 00:58:08,792 - We wish you good health and happiness. - Thank you. 801 00:58:08,792 --> 00:58:10,626 ...on your 60th birthday. 802 00:58:10,626 --> 00:58:14,751 And let's hope you get out of this. We know you're going to get through this. 803 00:58:15,834 --> 00:58:20,999 I think Delbert knows everything what happened that night. 804 00:58:20,999 --> 00:58:24,083 He didn't have any problems with that son of a bitch. 805 00:58:24,083 --> 00:58:28,584 If someday I have the chance to put your hands on him, It is better that you start praying. 806 00:58:29,209 --> 00:58:31,876 I don't believe in those Lawyer sons of bitches. 807 00:58:31,876 --> 00:58:34,918 I don't believe in them, they have converted me in a dangerous man. 808 00:58:35,417 --> 00:58:38,959 Delbert's trial must begin in a few weeks. 809 00:58:38,999 --> 00:58:41,999 The people of Munnsville They are organizing some raffles 810 00:58:41,999 --> 00:58:43,959 to raise funds to pay the costs of the trial. 811 00:58:43,959 --> 00:58:45,626 We'll be back in a moment. 812 00:58:49,709 --> 00:58:56,375 You saw, you were on television. What do you think about being on TV? 813 00:58:56,459 --> 00:58:57,999 How good! 814 00:58:57,999 --> 00:59:00,250 - After so much. - Yes. 815 00:59:00,375 --> 00:59:03,125 - You saw in the end they took you out. - Yes. 816 00:59:03,209 --> 00:59:07,375 They told us we were going to be scoundrels, that we were going to appear on camera. 817 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,334 You did very well, rascal. 818 00:59:10,417 --> 00:59:15,125 - You presented yourself very well. - They didn't shake your damn hand. 819 00:59:15,417 --> 00:59:19,042 But they didn't show us the damn papers. 820 00:59:20,876 --> 00:59:24,584 But I wasn't going to sign any damn paper until you get home. 821 00:59:52,709 --> 00:59:57,501 Joe and Bruce, come over. I want to show you the old turkeys. 822 01:00:04,250 --> 01:00:06,876 We called one Joe and the other Bruce. 823 01:00:10,042 --> 01:00:11,959 Take. Here, Joe. 824 01:00:13,417 --> 01:00:14,999 Turkey, turkey, turkey. 825 01:00:20,751 --> 01:00:22,751 I haven't fed them yet. 826 01:00:23,626 --> 01:00:25,626 Tell me when you're ready. 827 01:00:30,876 --> 01:00:32,334 Turkey, turkey, turkey, turkey. 828 01:00:36,459 --> 01:00:39,042 Come here, Joe and Bruce. I want to show them to you. 829 01:00:44,501 --> 01:00:46,292 If I can get in there. 830 01:00:50,209 --> 01:00:52,209 There's Joe... 831 01:00:52,709 --> 01:00:54,125 the big one 832 01:00:56,459 --> 01:01:00,999 And the one who is there is Bruce, looking towards the windshield. 833 01:01:00,999 --> 01:01:04,459 - Did you give our names to the turkeys? - Yes, that's right. 834 01:01:05,626 --> 01:01:07,834 - Why? - Well... 835 01:01:08,292 --> 01:01:10,000 - They are good names. -Yes? 836 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,083 Good friends. That's why I did it. 837 01:01:13,083 --> 01:01:15,042 - That's very kind. - It's an honor. 838 01:01:15,042 --> 01:01:16,667 I know. 839 01:01:18,876 --> 01:01:20,876 Why do you like collecting birds? 840 01:01:20,999 --> 01:01:22,999 - I always liked it. - Why? 841 01:01:22,999 --> 01:01:26,042 I don't know. He used to have wild pigeons. 842 01:01:26,083 --> 01:01:30,209 - But I never had luck with them. - What do you like about birds? 843 01:01:31,375 --> 01:01:35,417 I like to see them flutter and hear them scream. 844 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,584 I always liked it. 845 01:01:38,042 --> 01:01:40,209 I always liked hearing them. 846 01:01:42,999 --> 01:01:44,626 See how they respond? 847 01:01:44,626 --> 01:01:47,709 He knows something is happening. 848 01:01:47,792 --> 01:01:49,999 You can't fool to that old bird. 849 01:01:51,999 --> 01:01:54,000 I wanted you to be here today for several reasons. 850 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,167 The first is to communicate what has been happening. 851 01:01:56,167 --> 01:02:00,292 I really haven't had an opportunity to talk to... 852 01:02:06,167 --> 01:02:08,876 I haven't had the chance from talking to many of you... 853 01:02:08,876 --> 01:02:12,250 since maybe the bail hearing, which was months ago. 854 01:02:12,292 --> 01:02:16,876 I am very disappointed by what I see at the district attorney's office. 855 01:02:16,918 --> 01:02:20,083 When the body moved... 856 01:02:21,209 --> 01:02:22,834 to the funeral home... 857 01:02:22,834 --> 01:02:26,501 they took the clothes and Dr. Germaniuk shortly after... 858 01:02:26,501 --> 01:02:29,417 discovered that there was some sperm... 859 01:02:29,709 --> 01:02:32,999 on William's pant leg... 860 01:02:32,999 --> 01:02:36,999 and sperm on William himself, on his body. 861 01:02:37,542 --> 01:02:40,626 That, at that time, He changed his theory of the murder. 862 01:02:40,626 --> 01:02:44,999 I don't know anymore, at least these are what we have been able to unravel... 863 01:02:44,999 --> 01:02:47,334 It is no longer a merciful death. 864 01:02:47,375 --> 01:02:52,125 Believe it or not, it's a sexual murder that went wrong. 865 01:02:52,209 --> 01:02:55,999 I think the allegation, maybe along with some other things... 866 01:02:55,999 --> 01:02:58,375 is that Delbert and William They were having sex... 867 01:02:58,375 --> 01:03:02,999 that a fight occurred and that Delbert I killed William. That's incredible. 868 01:03:02,999 --> 01:03:05,876 That's what it could be the new theory. 869 01:03:06,125 --> 01:03:09,792 He had continually said: "It was Delbert's." 870 01:03:09,876 --> 01:03:11,999 We insist: "How do you know that? 871 01:03:11,999 --> 01:03:17,334 Shouldn't I check to see if it was William's? Or the cow? Or from someone else? 872 01:03:17,334 --> 01:03:19,959 Now I'm so upset I don't know what else to do. 873 01:03:19,959 --> 01:03:22,999 I told someone: "If God told me Today I'm going to die... 874 01:03:22,999 --> 01:03:25,209 the first person..." That's fantastic for them. 875 01:03:25,999 --> 01:03:28,167 "The first person I would kill "It's Mr. Cerio." 876 01:03:28,167 --> 01:03:32,000 I don't have any problem with him processing as he knows best. 877 01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:33,501 They are going beyond that. 878 01:03:33,542 --> 01:03:36,918 They seem like a bunch of fools. 879 01:03:36,918 --> 01:03:39,709 Let's see which police officer has the courage... 880 01:03:39,999 --> 01:03:43,542 to tell them on national TV, "I know he did it." 881 01:03:43,751 --> 01:03:45,542 Suddenly they are the jury. 882 01:03:45,542 --> 01:03:48,375 I tell you something else. When this trial begins... 883 01:03:48,375 --> 01:03:51,209 we will have this planned like it was a broadway show... 884 01:03:51,209 --> 01:03:53,501 and I'm going to ask you to each of you here: 885 01:03:53,501 --> 01:03:55,459 I want you to find ten people... 886 01:03:55,459 --> 01:03:59,000 and I want that court packed every minute of every day. 887 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,459 And I want you to look at those jurors in the eyes when they are sitting there. 888 01:04:02,459 --> 01:04:06,334 Those are what I want. and we We will take care of the legal part. 889 01:04:06,334 --> 01:04:10,999 I guarantee you will be proud of what is going to happen. 890 01:04:11,125 --> 01:04:15,999 But I need your help. I need your help and I can't do it without you. 891 01:04:15,999 --> 01:04:18,959 Friends, I want you there every day... 892 01:04:18,959 --> 01:04:22,542 from the moment we started until when we finish. Bring your lunch. 893 01:04:22,626 --> 01:04:26,959 It must be that way. I want you the people of Madison County know... 894 01:04:26,959 --> 01:04:28,999 that these things cannot happen. 895 01:04:28,999 --> 01:04:33,417 The problem is because it could be you, or you, or you, next time. 896 01:04:54,250 --> 01:04:59,250 Delbert, this is the day we have been waiting. Maybe we'll get over it. 897 01:04:59,250 --> 01:05:01,584 Maybe. I hope so. 898 01:05:01,584 --> 01:05:04,334 I have a wish. My birthday is next Tuesday. 899 01:05:04,334 --> 01:05:08,375 I hope they bring the verdict that you didn't do anything as a gift. 900 01:05:26,083 --> 01:05:28,083 Everyone stand, please. 901 01:05:31,167 --> 01:05:33,250 Madison County Courthouse is now in session. 902 01:05:33,250 --> 01:05:36,584 The Honorable William F. O'Brien III presides. 903 01:05:36,584 --> 01:05:39,209 Good morning and thank you. Take a seat, please. 904 01:05:46,792 --> 01:05:48,876 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury... 905 01:05:50,999 --> 01:05:52,999 This is a murder case... 906 01:05:53,626 --> 01:05:55,042 in which the accused... 907 01:05:55,542 --> 01:05:56,999 that man... 908 01:05:57,584 --> 01:06:01,834 is indicted by a grand jury of having intentionally caused... 909 01:06:01,999 --> 01:06:03,876 the death of another... 910 01:06:04,417 --> 01:06:07,626 in this case, his brother, William J. Ward... 911 01:06:07,626 --> 01:06:10,417 placing your hand or hands... 912 01:06:10,999 --> 01:06:13,959 on the nose and mouth from his brother... 913 01:06:14,959 --> 01:06:18,999 thus intentionally causing his death by asphyxiation. 914 01:06:19,834 --> 01:06:22,167 You will hear that the accused... 915 01:06:22,459 --> 01:06:29,083 At that time, he declared to police officers: "After Bill went to sleep... 916 01:06:29,209 --> 01:06:31,999 I decided to put my hand over his mouth." 917 01:06:31,999 --> 01:06:34,000 He said he kept his hand there... 918 01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,709 for about five minutes until He felt that William was dead. 919 01:06:37,999 --> 01:06:40,999 And when this case is over, ladies and gentlemen... 920 01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,999 with the conclusion of their deliberations... 921 01:06:48,042 --> 01:06:50,250 I will ask them to deliver... 922 01:06:51,083 --> 01:06:53,834 a guilty verdict in this case... 923 01:06:53,876 --> 01:06:57,292 guilty of the crime of murder in second grade. 924 01:07:03,751 --> 01:07:07,584 Ladies and gentlemen, allow me Let me start by simply saying... 925 01:07:07,999 --> 01:07:11,542 perhaps dramatically, that Delbert Ward... 926 01:07:11,542 --> 01:07:15,918 He did not murder his brother William. 927 01:07:17,042 --> 01:07:20,999 Delbert Ward couldn't kill to his brother Bill... 928 01:07:21,167 --> 01:07:23,999 as I couldn't kill a half dead cat. 929 01:07:23,999 --> 01:07:25,999 For the presentation, Ladies and gentlemen, you... 930 01:07:25,999 --> 01:07:30,999 you will undoubtedly understand that we have a child in the body of a man. 931 01:07:31,125 --> 01:07:33,667 Here we have a man whose inability... 932 01:07:33,918 --> 01:07:36,584 whose simple personality... 933 01:07:36,584 --> 01:07:38,999 they made him susceptible to tactics... 934 01:07:38,999 --> 01:07:42,999 that would have been recognized for you and for me as coercive... 935 01:07:42,999 --> 01:07:46,834 when they were used against Delbert Ward. 936 01:07:48,959 --> 01:07:51,250 Here we have a man that supposedly... 937 01:07:51,250 --> 01:07:53,501 signed an alleged confession. 938 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,417 And that confession, ladies and gentlemen... 939 01:07:57,999 --> 01:08:01,042 that confession is the only proof... 940 01:08:01,792 --> 01:08:03,999 that the prosecutor will show them... 941 01:08:03,999 --> 01:08:06,999 What will I give them? over the next few days... 942 01:08:06,999 --> 01:08:11,834 that can connect to Delbert with the murder of his brother Bill. 943 01:08:12,292 --> 01:08:17,959 There was and is none independent medical evidence... 944 01:08:18,459 --> 01:08:21,999 that William died as a result of a homicide. 945 01:08:22,709 --> 01:08:25,000 You must return, ladies and gentlemen... 946 01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,999 and tell Delbert and me They declare him innocent... 947 01:08:29,999 --> 01:08:33,834 of the crime of murder in second grade. 948 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,000 As I remember... 949 01:08:36,292 --> 01:08:40,375 my feeling was that I was telling how he is... 950 01:08:40,375 --> 01:08:42,709 I didn't know what was wrong. 951 01:08:42,999 --> 01:08:47,250 And that's what he said. He said, "Something's wrong with Bill." 952 01:08:47,250 --> 01:08:52,167 Everywhere everyone knows to Delbert in our town. 953 01:08:52,542 --> 01:08:54,792 If I saw him again, Could you recognize him? 954 01:08:54,999 --> 01:08:56,999 - Yes. - Could you recognize him? 955 01:08:56,999 --> 01:09:01,250 Is he in court? Well, can you point it out, please? 956 01:09:03,667 --> 01:09:05,999 -The gentleman with the gray beard? - How? 957 01:09:05,999 --> 01:09:07,999 The gentleman with the gray beard? 958 01:09:09,498 --> 01:09:10,414 How? 959 01:09:10,417 --> 01:09:12,999 �It's the man with the gray beard What is he pointing out? 960 01:09:14,459 --> 01:09:17,542 Let it be recorded that you have identified to the accused. 961 01:09:21,834 --> 01:09:23,167 Come on. 962 01:09:28,999 --> 01:09:29,999 Come on. 963 01:10:25,667 --> 01:10:27,626 You may proceed, Mr. Cerio. 964 01:10:27,626 --> 01:10:30,209 Thank you. Tell us your full name. 965 01:10:30,209 --> 01:10:32,999 my full name It's Humphrey Don Germaniuk. 966 01:10:32,999 --> 01:10:36,501 H-U-M-P-H-R-E-Y D-O-N... 967 01:10:36,501 --> 01:10:39,959 G-E-R-M-A-N-I-U-K. 968 01:10:40,459 --> 01:10:43,667 And could you tell us what it is? a forensic doctor? 969 01:10:43,792 --> 01:10:46,834 A forensic doctor is a licensed doctor... 970 01:10:46,834 --> 01:10:50,834 whose function is to determine the cause of death... 971 01:10:50,834 --> 01:10:53,999 a way of death and investigate the death. 972 01:10:53,999 --> 01:10:57,542 A cause of death It's any fact... 973 01:10:57,542 --> 01:11:01,626 who is ultimately responsible due to the death of the individual. 974 01:11:01,626 --> 01:11:03,792 The way of death... 975 01:11:03,834 --> 01:11:08,209 are the circumstances in which the cause of death took place. 976 01:11:08,209 --> 01:11:11,834 Let's take an example of an unnatural death... 977 01:11:11,834 --> 01:11:15,834 where there is an individual lying on the floor of his house. 978 01:11:15,834 --> 01:11:18,417 The individual lies in a pool of blood. 979 01:11:18,417 --> 01:11:21,209 There is a revolver next to the individual. 980 01:11:21,209 --> 01:11:23,918 There is a hole in the head of the individual. 981 01:11:23,918 --> 01:11:28,584 The most probable cause of death It will be a gunshot wound to the head. 982 01:11:28,584 --> 01:11:32,999 But what is the way? What are they the circumstances surrounding the case? 983 01:11:32,999 --> 01:11:35,334 Did someone shoot him? 984 01:11:35,334 --> 01:11:38,584 Did he take his own life? Or was it an accident? 985 01:11:38,584 --> 01:11:43,334 So although we may have the same cause of death, manner may vary. 986 01:11:43,334 --> 01:11:47,250 Suppose this individual was a man whose business was going badly. 987 01:11:47,250 --> 01:11:49,042 He had financial problems. 988 01:11:49,042 --> 01:11:51,667 A recent divorce maybe depressed. 989 01:11:51,667 --> 01:11:56,083 There is no evidence that anyone broke in. In the house, there is no lack of money. 990 01:11:56,083 --> 01:11:59,999 Most likely we will start to think that it could be suicide. 991 01:11:59,999 --> 01:12:03,334 Let's take the same body, the same pool of blood... 992 01:12:03,334 --> 01:12:06,999 the same revolver, the same ground, the same building. 993 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,167 The cause of death is still a gunshot wound to the head... 994 01:12:10,167 --> 01:12:14,083 but if we discover that someone broke into the house... 995 01:12:14,083 --> 01:12:17,999 that they have taken money, They have messed up the drawers... 996 01:12:17,999 --> 01:12:21,918 then we started to suspect that perhaps this could be a homicide. 997 01:12:28,542 --> 01:12:31,292 Mr. Cerio will make you Some questions, Mr. Ward. 998 01:12:32,375 --> 01:12:33,999 Mr. Ward... 999 01:12:34,999 --> 01:12:36,792 can you hear me well? 1000 01:12:38,375 --> 01:12:41,417 "Can you tell us, sir, your full name? 1001 01:12:41,999 --> 01:12:43,959 Lyman George Ward. 1002 01:12:44,999 --> 01:12:46,709 How old are you, sir? 1003 01:12:46,999 --> 01:12:49,999 - How old is he? - 66. 1004 01:12:50,292 --> 01:12:51,667 �66? 1005 01:12:55,417 --> 01:12:58,999 Do you remember when William died? 1006 01:13:00,083 --> 01:13:01,999 I remember when he died. 1007 01:13:04,876 --> 01:13:06,501 Where were you? 1008 01:13:10,626 --> 01:13:12,125 - When did he die? - Yes. 1009 01:13:12,125 --> 01:13:13,999 I must have been in bed. 1010 01:13:14,584 --> 01:13:17,542 I must have been in bed. I must have been in bed. 1011 01:13:21,999 --> 01:13:23,792 You have answered the question, Mr. Ward. 1012 01:13:23,792 --> 01:13:26,999 I think his response was: "I must having been in bed." Is that it? 1013 01:13:30,459 --> 01:13:32,999 Before his brother died... 1014 01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:36,999 Was there ever a conversation... 1015 01:13:38,999 --> 01:13:40,459 about... 1016 01:13:44,292 --> 01:13:45,918 end Bill's life? 1017 01:13:45,918 --> 01:13:46,959 No. 1018 01:13:47,751 --> 01:13:49,999 �Never had that conversation with anyone? 1019 01:13:49,999 --> 01:13:50,999 No. 1020 01:13:53,709 --> 01:13:57,501 This is titled the supporting statement... 1021 01:13:58,834 --> 01:14:02,999 and is dated June 6, 1990. 1022 01:14:02,999 --> 01:14:06,876 It says: "On June 6, 1990... 1023 01:14:08,167 --> 01:14:11,042 at 9:30 at night... 1024 01:14:11,999 --> 01:14:15,834 I, Lyman George Ward... 1025 01:14:15,918 --> 01:14:17,834 I declare the following:" 1026 01:14:18,292 --> 01:14:21,667 Question: "Do you know how William died?" 1027 01:14:22,417 --> 01:14:24,792 Answer: "They suffocated him." 1028 01:14:25,999 --> 01:14:29,417 Question: "Do you know who suffocated him?" 1029 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:31,999 Answer: "Delbert." 1030 01:14:31,999 --> 01:14:36,999 Question: "When did Delbert tell you that he suffocated his brother William?" 1031 01:14:36,999 --> 01:14:39,542 Answer: "This morning in the barn." 1032 01:14:44,959 --> 01:14:49,999 Sir, after hearing that, Do you want to change something about your testimony? 1033 01:14:53,209 --> 01:14:54,209 Yes. 1034 01:14:54,584 --> 01:14:59,000 I'm sorry. The court reporter You can't hear him if your elbow is like that. 1035 01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,626 Please turn around and look straight ahead to the jury, thank you. 1036 01:15:02,999 --> 01:15:05,999 "You want to change something of your testimony?" he was asked. 1037 01:15:08,999 --> 01:15:10,999 I won't be here long. 1038 01:15:11,292 --> 01:15:13,083 His response was that I wouldn't be here long. 1039 01:15:13,083 --> 01:15:15,999 Do you want to change something? of your testimony? 1040 01:15:18,125 --> 01:15:20,542 - I'm sorry. - You don't have to apologize. 1041 01:15:20,542 --> 01:15:24,375 Sir, Mr. Cerio was making him One question, Mr. Ward. 1042 01:15:24,751 --> 01:15:27,999 His question was: "Do you want to change... 1043 01:15:27,999 --> 01:15:30,000 anything from your testimony?" 1044 01:15:35,501 --> 01:15:37,999 - Yes. - Your answer is yes. 1045 01:15:39,167 --> 01:15:43,250 What did I want to change? of your testimony, Mr. Ward? 1046 01:15:48,501 --> 01:15:51,167 Well what I said It wasn't all true. 1047 01:15:52,501 --> 01:15:55,667 "What I said wasn't all true," was his response. 1048 01:15:55,792 --> 01:15:57,999 It was his intention for it to be true When did I sign it? 1049 01:15:57,999 --> 01:15:59,000 No. 1050 01:16:01,250 --> 01:16:03,000 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury... 1051 01:16:03,083 --> 01:16:05,000 We'll take a break now. 1052 01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:08,999 Enjoy the rest of the day. We'll see you tomorrow morning. 1053 01:16:20,167 --> 01:16:23,167 "DELBERT WARD TRIAL IN PROGRESS SUPPORT NEEDED" 1054 01:16:25,999 --> 01:16:28,375 Good morning, Mr. Ward. Take a seat, please. 1055 01:16:40,417 --> 01:16:41,999 Wait a second. 1056 01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,918 - A little further ahead. - That is. 1057 01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:51,999 You can continue direct interrogation. 1058 01:16:52,501 --> 01:16:55,083 - Your Ladyship, if you allow me to come closer. - Yes, come closer. 1059 01:16:55,999 --> 01:16:58,918 - Tell me if you can't hear me, okay? - Can't. 1060 01:16:58,918 --> 01:17:00,250 Can't you hear me? 1061 01:17:05,584 --> 01:17:08,999 You had told us that this was the statement you had given... 1062 01:17:08,999 --> 01:17:11,501 while I was at the police station. 1063 01:17:11,501 --> 01:17:16,125 Question: "Do you know when Delbert suffocated his brother William?" 1064 01:17:16,125 --> 01:17:18,999 "About 6:00 in the morning." 1065 01:17:18,999 --> 01:17:21,751 - Do you remember that question? - Yes. 1066 01:17:21,751 --> 01:17:23,999 Do you remember giving that answer? 1067 01:17:24,999 --> 01:17:26,167 No. 1068 01:17:34,999 --> 01:17:37,334 Sir, the question is: 1069 01:17:37,334 --> 01:17:40,999 "How do you know that Delbert suffocated his brother William?" 1070 01:17:40,999 --> 01:17:43,542 Answer: "He said he did it." 1071 01:17:43,542 --> 01:17:46,375 - Do you remember that question? - Yes, but he didn't do it. 1072 01:17:46,417 --> 01:17:48,999 - Do you remember the question? - Yes. 1073 01:17:48,999 --> 01:17:52,125 �Remember giving that answer: "He said he did it"? 1074 01:17:52,125 --> 01:17:53,959 Yes, but he didn't do it. 1075 01:17:54,792 --> 01:17:55,999 He didn't do it. 1076 01:17:55,999 --> 01:17:58,042 - What did he say? - He didn't. 1077 01:18:00,125 --> 01:18:02,250 The answer was, "He didn't." 1078 01:18:09,167 --> 01:18:11,834 I think the question is... 1079 01:18:13,209 --> 01:18:14,834 Mr. Ward. 1080 01:18:15,999 --> 01:18:17,999 We will take a ten minute break. 1081 01:18:20,167 --> 01:18:21,999 The jury can go out. 1082 01:19:08,417 --> 01:19:09,999 It really makes you sick. 1083 01:19:09,999 --> 01:19:11,999 Cruelty to animals... 1084 01:19:11,999 --> 01:19:15,375 Not even talking to human beings. That's cruel! 1085 01:19:15,375 --> 01:19:18,999 He is completely illiterate. He doesn't even know the time. 1086 01:19:18,999 --> 01:19:22,542 They're trying to get me to read one thing Donnegan wrote. 1087 01:19:22,542 --> 01:19:24,000 Humbug! 1088 01:19:30,999 --> 01:19:34,709 - In court the other day, how was it? - I fell to pieces. 1089 01:19:34,709 --> 01:19:36,417 I fell to pieces. 1090 01:19:36,667 --> 01:19:38,584 I almost died there. 1091 01:19:40,167 --> 01:19:42,167 Yes, we feel bad for you. 1092 01:19:44,334 --> 01:19:46,834 It's okay, Lyman. It's over. 1093 01:19:50,334 --> 01:19:52,334 - I couldn't stand it. - No. 1094 01:20:00,083 --> 01:20:01,999 -Roscoe. - Yes. 1095 01:20:01,999 --> 01:20:03,999 Heard what happened to Lyman in court? 1096 01:20:03,999 --> 01:20:05,626 - Yes. - Did you hear it? 1097 01:20:05,626 --> 01:20:08,167 - Yes. - What did you hear about it? 1098 01:20:08,167 --> 01:20:10,000 He almost died. 1099 01:20:12,042 --> 01:20:13,584 He almost died. 1100 01:20:36,083 --> 01:20:38,083 Can you identify that? for us, doctor? 1101 01:20:38,375 --> 01:20:41,542 Yes. We have one, two, three, four... 1102 01:20:41,542 --> 01:20:43,918 five containers... 1103 01:20:44,292 --> 01:20:46,876 containing various specimens... 1104 01:20:46,876 --> 01:20:50,999 of the medical examiner's case number 900391. 1105 01:20:50,999 --> 01:20:54,459 -And who would that be? - That would be William Ward. 1106 01:20:56,667 --> 01:20:58,667 Can you identify that for us? 1107 01:20:58,999 --> 01:21:01,792 State test 21... 1108 01:21:01,876 --> 01:21:06,501 identify the head and neck regions... 1109 01:21:06,501 --> 01:21:09,584 of case number 90-0391. 1110 01:21:09,584 --> 01:21:11,709 How can you identify this? 1111 01:21:11,709 --> 01:21:16,250 The numbers that identify it They are on the front of the neck. 1112 01:21:16,417 --> 01:21:19,209 After having taken photographs there, what did he do? 1113 01:21:19,209 --> 01:21:21,751 Then he continued examining the eyes. 1114 01:21:21,751 --> 01:21:23,792 I looked at the top and bottom of the eyelids... 1115 01:21:23,792 --> 01:21:26,999 and at the bottom noticed petechia. 1116 01:21:26,999 --> 01:21:32,876 He also examined the dental arches. The individual had no teeth. 1117 01:21:32,999 --> 01:21:36,876 What I noticed in the dental arch top right side... 1118 01:21:36,876 --> 01:21:41,417 that there was also diffuse petechia or blood stains. 1119 01:21:41,792 --> 01:21:43,876 Throughout the trachea... 1120 01:21:43,876 --> 01:21:47,999 starting with the top shoulder, which is called epiglottis... 1121 01:21:47,999 --> 01:21:50,918 to the windpipe where it splits in half... 1122 01:21:50,918 --> 01:21:53,125 to feed the right lung and to the left lung... 1123 01:21:53,125 --> 01:21:54,709 there were multiple... 1124 01:21:54,709 --> 01:21:58,667 numerous of those tiny ones blood stains 1125 01:21:58,667 --> 01:22:01,999 With that diffuse dew of petechia... 1126 01:22:01,999 --> 01:22:06,542 the large amount of petechia What was there and its distribution... 1127 01:22:06,542 --> 01:22:11,167 It made me start to think that we could facing death by asphyxiation. 1128 01:22:11,792 --> 01:22:15,999 In my opinion, based on a degree reasonable medical certainty... 1129 01:22:15,999 --> 01:22:18,999 This is not a case of suffocation. 1130 01:22:18,999 --> 01:22:22,999 There are four important findings... 1131 01:22:22,999 --> 01:22:24,999 that I would look for... 1132 01:22:25,334 --> 01:22:28,209 It's a case of suffocation... 1133 01:22:28,626 --> 01:22:31,501 which are not present in this case: 1134 01:22:31,501 --> 01:22:34,501 There is no cyanosis, there is no increase in the fluidity of the blood... 1135 01:22:34,501 --> 01:22:36,375 There are no wounds around the nose... 1136 01:22:36,375 --> 01:22:39,667 mouth, gums, chin, tongue... 1137 01:22:39,667 --> 01:22:43,792 and the absence... 1138 01:22:44,209 --> 01:22:48,292 from even the smallest suggestion of regurgitation. 1139 01:22:48,417 --> 01:22:50,834 When you are being suffocated... 1140 01:22:50,959 --> 01:22:53,999 ...fights and gasps for air... 1141 01:22:53,999 --> 01:22:56,834 ...the food rises again. He starts to feel nauseous. 1142 01:22:56,834 --> 01:22:59,834 There is nothing like that at all. Zero. 1143 01:23:32,250 --> 01:23:34,250 Move, damn it. 1144 01:24:43,876 --> 01:24:47,918 Delbert, bring the butcher knife and the passenger seat sharpener. 1145 01:24:47,918 --> 01:24:50,918 You have to come through my door. That one is locked. 1146 01:25:30,167 --> 01:25:31,999 Thanks, Moses. 1147 01:25:35,834 --> 01:25:37,751 Doctor, it's true, it's not true... 1148 01:25:37,751 --> 01:25:41,292 that, at the conclusion of his examination internal and external... 1149 01:25:41,334 --> 01:25:45,959 You couldn't tell with a degree required medical certainty... 1150 01:25:45,959 --> 01:25:48,125 the cause or manner of death? 1151 01:25:48,125 --> 01:25:49,501 That's right. 1152 01:25:49,501 --> 01:25:51,876 By that, I mean that I couldn't... 1153 01:25:51,876 --> 01:25:55,792 surely with no degree of certainty, indicate if it was a homicide. 1154 01:25:55,792 --> 01:25:57,167 That's right. 1155 01:25:57,167 --> 01:26:00,667 But you spoke with Mr. Cerio, and his notes indicate... 1156 01:26:00,667 --> 01:26:03,959 that you told him: "I can't rule out homicide." 1157 01:26:03,999 --> 01:26:05,918 - Am I right? - That's right. 1158 01:26:06,042 --> 01:26:08,584 Once you arrived on the scene, doctor... 1159 01:26:09,375 --> 01:26:13,689 He was not immediately told that Will you call the police station in Oneida? 1160 01:26:13,706 --> 01:26:14,622 That's how it was. 1161 01:26:14,626 --> 01:26:16,709 And at the conclusion of this call... 1162 01:26:16,709 --> 01:26:21,375 Didn't he tell her that Delbert Ward had confessed have killed his brother? 1163 01:26:23,876 --> 01:26:24,999 Yes. 1164 01:26:25,626 --> 01:26:30,792 So that death certificate arose as a result... 1165 01:26:30,999 --> 01:26:34,667 that you found out that Mr. Ward had confessed... 1166 01:26:34,667 --> 01:26:37,532 the crime of murder in second grade. 1167 01:26:37,542 --> 01:26:38,332 No. 1168 01:26:38,336 --> 01:26:42,542 Doctor, if you had never found out that Mr. Ward... 1169 01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,999 had confessed to the crime of murder in second grade... 1170 01:26:46,999 --> 01:26:48,542 Would you have... 1171 01:26:50,292 --> 01:26:53,999 June 7, changed that death certificate? 1172 01:26:53,999 --> 01:26:57,125 - No. - Then let him back off, doctor. 1173 01:26:57,125 --> 01:27:00,834 That death certificate was changed... 1174 01:27:01,042 --> 01:27:06,334 because you had found out, that Mr. Ward had confessed... 1175 01:27:06,334 --> 01:27:09,083 the crime of murder in second grade. 1176 01:27:09,083 --> 01:27:12,626 But that was not the only information. 1177 01:27:12,626 --> 01:27:15,999 - We know about petechia. Correct? - Correct. 1178 01:27:15,999 --> 01:27:20,167 But we know, doctor, because we speak of that countless times yesterday... 1179 01:27:20,167 --> 01:27:22,167 that, at that moment... 1180 01:27:22,167 --> 01:27:25,209 there were a huge number of reasons for petechia. 1181 01:27:25,209 --> 01:27:28,083 - That's right. So we'll leave that aside. 1182 01:27:28,417 --> 01:27:33,459 Because, as you just indicated, that wouldn't have been enough... 1183 01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:38,250 to justify a change on the death certificate on June 7. 1184 01:27:38,250 --> 01:27:39,918 That's right. 1185 01:27:39,999 --> 01:27:42,083 So again, Let me ask you. 1186 01:27:42,083 --> 01:27:47,334 That death certificate, It was changed on June 7... 1187 01:27:47,918 --> 01:27:49,999 for the only reason... 1188 01:27:49,999 --> 01:27:53,209 that Mr. Ward had confessed the crime. 1189 01:27:53,209 --> 01:27:56,292 "Isn't that the reason?" June 7th... 1190 01:27:56,292 --> 01:27:58,834 for which it was changed the death certificate? 1191 01:27:58,834 --> 01:27:59,876 No. 1192 01:28:01,083 --> 01:28:05,083 In my opinion, the cause of death from Mr. William Ward... 1193 01:28:05,083 --> 01:28:11,959 It was heart failure, which resulted in pulmonary edema: 1194 01:28:11,959 --> 01:28:14,999 the accumulation of a substantial amount... 1195 01:28:14,999 --> 01:28:17,417 of fluid in the lungs... 1196 01:28:18,918 --> 01:28:20,918 I tried to tell him that I didn't do it. 1197 01:28:21,999 --> 01:28:26,584 And Gene Rifenberg and Killough said that yes I did. 1198 01:28:26,999 --> 01:28:30,834 They were on top of me and said What if he cooperated with the police... 1199 01:28:30,834 --> 01:28:33,083 They would be much more benign with me. 1200 01:28:33,876 --> 01:28:38,125 So I thought that if I cooperated with them, I would get out of there and go home. 1201 01:28:38,250 --> 01:28:40,209 - But it wasn't like that. - It wasn't like that. 1202 01:28:40,209 --> 01:28:42,999 - But did I cooperate with them? - Yes. 1203 01:28:42,999 --> 01:28:45,999 And Mr. Rifenberg is the one that showed... 1204 01:28:45,999 --> 01:28:50,083 how did I put my hand over William's mouth and nose. 1205 01:28:50,999 --> 01:28:53,542 - And that happened in that room? - Yes. 1206 01:28:53,542 --> 01:28:57,876 - You didn't show him how it happened? - No. He showed me. 1207 01:28:59,751 --> 01:29:03,083 Mr. Ward, what other programs You see, besides Westerns? 1208 01:29:03,209 --> 01:29:05,167 Some police programs. 1209 01:29:05,167 --> 01:29:06,999 Police programs? 1210 01:29:06,999 --> 01:29:10,959 - What types of police programs? - Some like Madlock. 1211 01:29:12,876 --> 01:29:14,959 - Have you ever seen Hunter? - No. 1212 01:29:14,959 --> 01:29:18,375 - Have you ever seen Hunter? - Yes, just a couple of times, but I didn't like it very much... 1213 01:29:18,375 --> 01:29:20,250 Don't you like me very much? 1214 01:29:20,999 --> 01:29:23,375 - When did you come here today? - No. 1215 01:29:23,375 --> 01:29:27,042 - What time did they come? - At 8:00 at night... on Tuesday. 1216 01:29:27,042 --> 01:29:29,709 Tuesday night? What is Madlock? 1217 01:29:29,999 --> 01:29:32,584 - Do you remember Griffith? - Yes. 1218 01:29:33,459 --> 01:29:35,667 That's what I'm telling you. 1219 01:29:35,667 --> 01:29:37,999 He calls himself Madlock, the lawyer. 1220 01:29:38,250 --> 01:29:40,209 Are you now a lawyer? 1221 01:29:40,209 --> 01:29:42,999 - Do you know what kind of lawyer he is? - Defense lawyer. 1222 01:29:42,999 --> 01:29:44,876 Isn't he a prosecutor? 1223 01:29:44,876 --> 01:29:47,667 - Are you a defense lawyer? - Yes, he is a defense lawyer. 1224 01:29:49,209 --> 01:29:51,876 He acted in many murder trials. 1225 01:29:52,542 --> 01:29:55,999 - Have you ever seen Wheelof Fortune? Yes, I have seen it. 1226 01:29:55,999 --> 01:30:00,042 - Do you know who works at Wheel of Fortune? - Who Matt Lohoy? 1227 01:30:02,209 --> 01:30:06,125 What other types of programs do you watch? 1228 01:30:06,125 --> 01:30:08,334 I also watch Jeopardy. 1229 01:30:08,334 --> 01:30:09,667 Jeopardy? 1230 01:30:09,667 --> 01:30:11,292 - Have you ever tried to answer some of the questions? 1231 01:30:11,292 --> 01:30:13,667 In some I gave very different answers. 1232 01:30:15,375 --> 01:30:19,626 I want to show you something. This is marked "State Test 19". 1233 01:30:19,626 --> 01:30:21,292 - Can you take a look at that? - I can't see it. 1234 01:30:21,292 --> 01:30:24,959 - Can't you see this? - Not without my glasses. 1235 01:30:26,959 --> 01:30:28,999 - Can't you read any of this? - No. 1236 01:30:29,751 --> 01:30:31,751 - Didn't you bring your glasses? - No. 1237 01:30:32,999 --> 01:30:35,501 - They don't work anyway. - I see. 1238 01:30:36,959 --> 01:30:40,542 - Have you ever wanted your own bed? - Sometimes, but I didn't have it. 1239 01:30:40,542 --> 01:30:43,000 - Have you ever wanted your own room? - Sometimes. 1240 01:30:44,751 --> 01:30:47,876 �It bothered him when William Did you get up in the middle of the night? 1241 01:30:47,876 --> 01:30:52,334 Sometimes he yelled at me, he told me it was Time to get up and milk the cows. 1242 01:30:52,334 --> 01:30:55,751 - Do homework. But it wasn't the time. - No. 1243 01:30:55,751 --> 01:30:58,584 - So I woke him up? - Maybe it woke you up. 1244 01:30:59,125 --> 01:31:01,626 I did that a couple of times during the night? 1245 01:31:01,626 --> 01:31:02,999 Some nights. 1246 01:31:03,459 --> 01:31:06,667 - So you couldn't sleep well? - Not always. 1247 01:31:06,667 --> 01:31:09,792 Bill had problems to retain urine, right? 1248 01:31:09,792 --> 01:31:11,834 Yes, I couldn't hold her well. 1249 01:31:11,834 --> 01:31:13,999 - It woke you up, didn't it? - Sometimes. 1250 01:31:14,584 --> 01:31:16,000 Well, you said... 1251 01:31:16,167 --> 01:31:19,834 that Bill had headaches and stomach, correct? 1252 01:31:19,834 --> 01:31:23,999 Did he ever say something to you? about if he died, what would happen? 1253 01:31:23,999 --> 01:31:26,584 Yes, he said that one morning I was going to wake up... 1254 01:31:26,584 --> 01:31:29,542 and one of us would be arrested for his murder. 1255 01:31:29,542 --> 01:31:31,834 - Is that what he told you? - That's what he told me. 1256 01:31:31,834 --> 01:31:35,667 - He told me outside. - He told you outside, yes? 1257 01:31:35,667 --> 01:31:37,334 When did he tell you that? 1258 01:31:38,417 --> 01:31:40,999 Well, I don't know. It must have been in April or May. 1259 01:31:44,125 --> 01:31:47,792 - Did he say he would die one night? - That's what he said. 1260 01:31:47,876 --> 01:31:52,709 And that one of you would be arrested for his murder? 1261 01:31:52,709 --> 01:31:54,959 - Is that what he said? - That's what he said. 1262 01:31:56,083 --> 01:31:59,209 "Would you raise your hands, sir, and would you show them to the jury? 1263 01:31:59,448 --> 01:32:00,372 Thank you, sir. 1264 01:32:00,377 --> 01:32:02,667 Let it be recorded that he has done that. 1265 01:32:07,999 --> 01:32:10,000 In case Delbert goes to jail... 1266 01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:12,292 or something happens to him... 1267 01:32:13,125 --> 01:32:15,125 We have to make a will... 1268 01:32:15,125 --> 01:32:18,834 so that things go where He wants, not where the state wants. 1269 01:32:18,834 --> 01:32:22,209 Whereas things have gone against us until now... 1270 01:32:22,209 --> 01:32:24,999 there is a good possibility for that to happen. 1271 01:32:25,501 --> 01:32:28,542 As I explained to Delbert, Right, Delbert? 1272 01:32:28,542 --> 01:32:30,000 You explained it to me. 1273 01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:36,167 I told him there's a good chance Let him go to prison for something he didn't do. 1274 01:32:37,459 --> 01:32:39,626 I don't feel good about that. 1275 01:32:39,959 --> 01:32:41,876 I might go to jail... 1276 01:32:42,584 --> 01:32:44,584 or he may not live long. 1277 01:32:47,209 --> 01:32:51,459 Who did the state police believe? What were you taking to the barracks? 1278 01:32:51,459 --> 01:32:57,042 I allow myself to say that they felt that they were carrying to a group of eccentric farmers... 1279 01:32:57,417 --> 01:32:59,459 who live like animals... 1280 01:32:59,459 --> 01:33:03,667 who are stupid and ignorant, without a friend in the world. 1281 01:33:03,959 --> 01:33:07,751 �They really want to believe that New York State Police... 1282 01:33:07,918 --> 01:33:09,709 the forensic doctors... 1283 01:33:09,751 --> 01:33:11,626 of Madison County... 1284 01:33:11,626 --> 01:33:14,999 They decided to arrest Delbert Ward... 1285 01:33:15,584 --> 01:33:18,667 for no other reason than: "Let's invent a homicide. 1286 01:33:18,667 --> 01:33:23,167 Let's invent a murder and choose that man to do it"? 1287 01:33:23,375 --> 01:33:26,000 We know that he is politely... 1288 01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:27,999 a mentally retarded... 1289 01:33:27,999 --> 01:33:30,250 with a schizoid personality. 1290 01:33:30,876 --> 01:33:33,584 William was 64 years old, ladies and gentlemen. 1291 01:33:33,584 --> 01:33:35,667 He died a natural death... 1292 01:33:35,667 --> 01:33:38,959 while I was sleeping due to heart failure... 1293 01:33:38,959 --> 01:33:42,209 the most common form of death for a man of that age. 1294 01:33:42,209 --> 01:33:46,334 You ladies and gentlemen, They saw the accused testify. 1295 01:33:47,999 --> 01:33:50,999 You do the evaluation yes or no... 1296 01:33:53,792 --> 01:33:55,792 He is an intelligent guy. 1297 01:33:55,959 --> 01:33:58,751 Yes. Are there any social deprivations? 1298 01:33:58,999 --> 01:34:02,125 Yes. I don't think one can dispute that. 1299 01:34:02,834 --> 01:34:05,999 Does this person seem just be... 1300 01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:08,083 a person with a coefficient intelligence of 63... 1301 01:34:08,083 --> 01:34:12,292 and politely mentally retarded, or does it seem to be higher? 1302 01:34:12,501 --> 01:34:15,334 There is no medical test independent... 1303 01:34:15,334 --> 01:34:18,999 that alone, without that confession... 1304 01:34:18,999 --> 01:34:23,417 say William died as a result of a murder. 1305 01:34:23,542 --> 01:34:28,626 The only thing that was given to you is this supposed confession... 1306 01:34:29,250 --> 01:34:33,501 taken from a man, whose mere appearance... 1307 01:34:33,792 --> 01:34:36,667 cries out a special treatment. 1308 01:34:39,042 --> 01:34:42,542 As expected, both parties They gave strong closing arguments... 1309 01:34:42,542 --> 01:34:44,751 and after three weeks of emotional testimonies... 1310 01:34:44,751 --> 01:34:47,995 the fate of Delbert Ward remains in the hands of the jury. 1311 01:34:47,999 --> 01:34:50,125 Paula Garell, Channel 3 News. 1312 01:34:53,584 --> 01:34:55,999 I mean: "The jury is now out." 1313 01:35:05,918 --> 01:35:07,999 -How is Mr. Ward? - It's okay. 1314 01:35:07,999 --> 01:35:11,918 - Nervous? - Like any of us, without a doubt. 1315 01:35:13,375 --> 01:35:15,709 - Is this all? - Thanks, Ralph. 1316 01:35:32,584 --> 01:35:34,834 We catch up with the history of the moment. 1317 01:35:34,834 --> 01:35:38,501 First we go live with Christie Casciano to Delbert's trial. 1318 01:35:38,501 --> 01:35:40,501 Christie, what happened? in the last hour? 1319 01:35:40,501 --> 01:35:44,999 Since the last time we spoke The jury has gone out to eat. 1320 01:35:44,999 --> 01:35:49,834 The verdict has not been so quick as some predicted of court observers. 1321 01:35:49,834 --> 01:35:53,375 Now the jury has the task of deciding If Ward committed murder... 1322 01:35:53,375 --> 01:35:57,999 by suffocating the brother last June. 1323 01:35:57,999 --> 01:36:00,999 The trial began from 11:30 in the morning... 1324 01:36:00,999 --> 01:36:04,999 and since that hour they have been listening all the testimonies and reviewing all the evidence. 1325 01:36:04,999 --> 01:36:06,626 They've been at this for 6 hours. 1326 01:36:06,626 --> 01:36:10,375 Half an hour ago they recessed to go to dinner at 6 in the afternoon... 1327 01:36:10,375 --> 01:36:15,792 and has to return again at 8:00 and we will be here all the time. 1328 01:36:15,792 --> 01:36:17,542 And we will update them on the 11:00 news. 1329 01:36:17,542 --> 01:36:21,999 Now we will return to Lisa Swizer to learn more about our main story. 1330 01:36:22,751 --> 01:36:26,999 Ladies and gentlemen, the jury has informed you to the judge who has reached a verdict... 1331 01:36:26,999 --> 01:36:28,792 and I warn everyone present... 1332 01:36:28,792 --> 01:36:31,667 here in court, including spectators... 1333 01:36:31,918 --> 01:36:34,459 They must remain seated... 1334 01:36:34,999 --> 01:36:39,375 throughout the entire procedure of the reading of the verdict. 1335 01:36:39,375 --> 01:36:41,501 In the event that there were some violation of that... 1336 01:36:41,501 --> 01:36:45,999 I will close the court, You will be escorted out of here... 1337 01:36:45,999 --> 01:36:48,626 and you will be able to find out the verdict... 1338 01:36:48,626 --> 01:36:52,876 reading it in the newspaper or watching it on television. 1339 01:36:52,876 --> 01:36:56,999 No audible reactions allowed or emotional explosions... 1340 01:36:56,999 --> 01:36:59,792 by anyone in this room. 1341 01:36:59,792 --> 01:37:03,667 I'm serious. If there is any explosion... 1342 01:37:03,667 --> 01:37:06,083 I'm going to empty the entire court. 1343 01:37:06,542 --> 01:37:08,876 Jurors can return to the court. 1344 01:37:30,667 --> 01:37:34,999 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, The clerk of the court informs me... 1345 01:37:34,999 --> 01:37:38,125 that the jury has, in effect, reached a verdict. 1346 01:37:38,125 --> 01:37:40,709 - Mr. Broderick, is that correct? - Yes, sir. 1347 01:37:40,709 --> 01:37:44,167 The assistant will receive the card. 1348 01:37:55,209 --> 01:37:58,834 Mr. Broderick, the court has... 1349 01:37:58,876 --> 01:38:03,125 received the verdict sheet and I ask, as president of the jury... 1350 01:38:03,125 --> 01:38:05,999 You have, in fact, reached a verdict in this case? 1351 01:38:05,999 --> 01:38:06,999 Yes. 1352 01:38:06,999 --> 01:38:09,999 What is the verdict of this jury... 1353 01:38:10,042 --> 01:38:12,792 regarding the crime of murder in second grade? 1354 01:38:12,792 --> 01:38:15,959 �They have determined that the accused Is he guilty or innocent? 1355 01:38:15,959 --> 01:38:18,042 - Innocent. - Innocent? 1356 01:38:20,375 --> 01:38:22,999 Ladies and gentlemen of this jury... 1357 01:38:24,042 --> 01:38:26,459 the court has heard Mr. Broderick announce... 1358 01:38:26,459 --> 01:38:30,083 that the verdict is innocent of murder in the second degree. 1359 01:38:30,083 --> 01:38:34,584 Now I ask all of you, Is this your verdict? Is that what everyone says? 1360 01:38:34,744 --> 01:38:35,540 Yes. 1361 01:38:35,542 --> 01:38:39,959 Mr. Ward, you may leave. You can go. We will ask you... 1362 01:38:39,959 --> 01:38:43,042 to the press media to stay away so he can leave. 1363 01:38:43,459 --> 01:38:46,709 Thank you ladies and gentlemen, for your respect. 1364 01:38:53,999 --> 01:38:56,501 - God bless you. - So that smile says it all? 1365 01:38:56,999 --> 01:38:58,792 Thanks to all my friends. 1366 01:38:59,042 --> 01:39:02,167 -What's next for you, Delbert? - Back to the farm. 1367 01:39:02,167 --> 01:39:04,626 -How do you feel? - Imagine, partner. 1368 01:39:04,626 --> 01:39:06,667 Harry, how do you feel? 1369 01:39:07,834 --> 01:39:11,375 My heart hasn't stopped beating yet. It will be fine tomorrow morning. 1370 01:39:11,375 --> 01:39:13,751 I thought it would turn out this way? 1371 01:39:13,999 --> 01:39:15,999 The system works, right? 1372 01:39:16,083 --> 01:39:19,626 - What do you think, Delbert? - I thought it could be. I wasn't sure. 1373 01:39:19,626 --> 01:39:21,584 I'll go home as fast as I can. 1374 01:39:21,999 --> 01:39:24,834 I love you, darling. Goodbye. 1375 01:39:24,834 --> 01:39:26,375 Thank you. Goodbye. 1376 01:39:26,501 --> 01:39:30,292 -How do you feel? -How do I feel? Very, very happy. 1377 01:39:30,292 --> 01:39:32,542 - What is all this noise? - It's like a wedding. 1378 01:39:32,542 --> 01:39:36,292 No one will be able to sleep tonight, Not in Munnsville. 1379 01:39:36,292 --> 01:39:38,459 Are you going to Disneyland? 1380 01:39:39,999 --> 01:39:43,125 In all the tests, I couldn't find no solid evidence... 1381 01:39:43,125 --> 01:39:45,709 to prove that it had been committed a crime 1382 01:39:45,709 --> 01:39:47,999 - Justice was done. - That's right. 1383 01:39:47,999 --> 01:39:50,292 Delbert, we are happy. 1384 01:39:50,999 --> 01:39:53,501 - We are happy for you. - Thank you all. 1385 01:39:53,542 --> 01:39:56,209 - We are happy for you. - We are all happy for you. 1386 01:39:57,999 --> 01:40:02,250 "DELBERT WARD - INNOCENT PORK OR BEEF DINNER" 1387 01:40:17,999 --> 01:40:20,209 Do you think there was something good in all this? 1388 01:40:20,542 --> 01:40:21,792 Yes. 1389 01:40:22,417 --> 01:40:23,999 Yes, I think so. 1390 01:40:28,083 --> 01:40:31,042 The way everyone They helped Delbert... 1391 01:40:32,999 --> 01:40:36,999 in the Munnsville and Stockbridge area and different places. 1392 01:40:38,125 --> 01:40:39,542 Yes. 1393 01:40:50,125 --> 01:40:52,834 I was visiting and talking with my friends. 1394 01:40:53,999 --> 01:40:58,334 - He has many friends now. - The Stockbridge canteen was full. 1395 01:40:58,375 --> 01:41:00,792 I was going to buy them coffee to some of my friends. 1396 01:41:00,792 --> 01:41:03,999 They didn't even let me buy it or spend a penny. 1397 01:41:03,999 --> 01:41:06,292 The lady and the man who work in the canteen... 1398 01:41:06,292 --> 01:41:08,959 they took their own money and they paid for everything. 1399 01:41:09,501 --> 01:41:11,999 Why don't you come this summer, Joe? 1400 01:41:13,209 --> 01:41:17,626 When the pretty green leaves come out. You and Bruce and Doug and Mike. 1401 01:41:18,459 --> 01:41:22,918 When the pretty green leaves come out, come and take pictures. 1402 01:41:28,626 --> 01:41:30,709 What do you think now? of all this, Delbert? 1403 01:41:30,999 --> 01:41:33,918 Well I'm glad that it's over. 1404 01:41:35,709 --> 01:41:39,250 I thank all my friends for the support they gave me. 1405 01:41:40,125 --> 01:41:42,792 - Did you know you had so many friends? - Not so many. 1406 01:41:53,834 --> 01:41:56,459 - Do you think your life is different now? - Yes. 1407 01:41:56,626 --> 01:41:59,000 I'm going to start all over again. 1408 01:42:01,209 --> 01:42:03,667 You too, guys.